Are schools to controlling or snow flake parents/kids

[Silverlinning]

I have noticed lots said about schooling lately. One of my children did not cope well in school and I had to take him out . My other children were fine.

But I am wondering if schools are becoming a bit to controlling. Some examples I can think of . At my Dd school if their home work is due to be in by Friday. If its not done by Wednesday. They get made to go to homework class on the Thursday to do Fridays home work. So basically Fridays home work has to be done by Wed.

In the summer when it's hot kids are still made to wear awful blazers. Whilst the teachers are in clothing suited for the weather and are In control of if kids can take their blazers off.

Toilets are mostly locked and children can't access them unless it's break time. Which does not seem right especially if girls on their period its heavy etc.

They get detentions if they are slightly late or if they forget a ruler. If they can't do pe due to a known injury they still have to bring in their PE kit .

Apprently this is to get them used to adult world. But adults are not treated that way are they ?

Last thing is children mostly who have school dinners sometimes don't get to eat because the ques are to long they spend their whole break quing for food and sometimes go without due to lunch ending.

Home working having to be handed in (before) it's due ... controlling.

Leaving homework until the last minute and then having to rush it the night before it’s due in isn’t good for educational attainment nor is it good for mental health. It’s a bad habit for young people to fall into, looking ahead to university when self discipline and good patterns for planning, working and focus are essential, and it certainly doesn’t stand you in good stead in a professional environment: you aren’t going to perform well at work if you don’t begin working on your projects until the day before the deadline. If pupils aren’t starting last week’s homework until a day before the deadline, that means that this week’s homework is similarly going to be pushed right up until the next deadline, and if they’re doing this consistently then they’re not demonstrating good working patterns and likely to cause themselves significant additional stress and anxiety - which we’re constantly told is on the increase in young people.

The school is trying to teach young people good habits and discipline which will serve them well when they leave school and assist in their overall wellbeing and motivation, not be “controlling.”Young people’s parents should be supporting them to, say, begin a piece of homework soon after assignment or at least set out a plan and notes for how they intend to complete it, so they have something to show when asked how their progress is coming along and avoid having to go to homework club.

Yeh i agree with you OP. I live in Switzerland and we put our 3 year old in a Swiss montessori preschool. Took him out after 4 months, it was so strict, so many rules, he was miserable, became really withdrawn. He lashed out, was hitting teachers, pulling hair, throwing things. After 2.5 months they told me they thought he was autistic. Then a week later they decided he was naughty and needed a 1 to 1 assistant. Whilst i accept his behaviour was not acceptable they were so quick to write him off as a bad kid rather than a 3 year old struggling with his environment. They werent interested if he was sick, tired or having a bad day, there was no accomodation for difficult days. I decided to immediately withdraw him when i found out unbeknown to me they had been restraining him. When we went to pick up his belongings he wouldnt go in the classroom, froze, went silent and wanted to go home.
I moved him into an English school and we havent had any problems whatsoever, they have been so kind and lovely. He is like a different kid, so much happier. Kids thrive in the right environment with the right teachers and unfortunately i think there are some UK schools which are failing kids.

I wonder if it's imposed because when things like this are voluntary, the kids who would do their homework by Friday would be more likely to volunteer, but the ones who need it/ live in chaotic homes etc won't turn up?

DH and I both look at reports of school behaviour policies today and wonder how on earth we would have managed.

We are both neurodiverse but of an age when it wasn't diagnosed much.

And yet our schools had known kids like us turned up in every year group and naturally accommodated fidgeting, staring out of the window daydreaming, a prolonged period of selective mutism and total failure to understand homework deadlines.

the more i read about British (? English?) schools and their batshit uniform rules, the more i think i was right not to move back to the UK.

the blazer thing is batshit in summer. Complete and utter batshit. if the kids have to wear a jacket, shirt and tie, so should the staff. All of them.

the dinner thing? if pupils are missing meals because the school is too stupid to implement a better system then that is a massive problem. What do schools do about this? (kids faffing about and not getting to meals ontime notwithstanding)

The toilet thing - meh. The kids bring this kind of thing on themselves. I could only get excited if, for eg, girls are being denied a toilet break due to periods during class time.

Slightly late and forgetting things? meh. Punishments shouldn't be disproportionate, but kids need to learn to be organised.

Schlepping in PE kit when you're off PE? file that under batshit

The homework thing would drive me crazy. I have always done my work last minute. I try not to but that is how i do my best work. It would be a waste of my thursday because for sure i would be faffing. It has impeded neither my education nor my career.

Going to school was the worst years of my life i walked out at 14 being an adult is so much easier than school.

I hated school i walked out i still hate schools and im not keen on teachers either.
Worst time of my life was when my children went to school best time of my life they walked out for good.
I dont think some teachers see the stress that schools can put on parents not just the kids.

I think it must be a hard system to manage however, as a parent i over rule everyone else.

So silly rules like for example blazer wearing on a hot day or no toilet breaks in between class is just now something i would stand for.

My daughter once came out of school aged 8 years old ( having been toilet trained since before age 2) wet because she had asked 3 times and wasn't allowed to go and it turned out she had a urine infection.

I was absolutely livid and sent an email confirming that none of my 3 DCs will every be witheld from going to the toilet.

We dont do homework

There will never be detention as my children have other commitments.

I do however expect to always be phoned if my child/children are being disruptive, rude, or bad behavior, i would also advocate schools decisions for my children to miss class trips, school discos etc but only for bad behavior, not asking to got the toilet.

My children are very good students and well behaved ( luckily)

So i do blame the parent for allowing this shit to happen, but also aware many parents are shit at parenting.

That's the thing though it needs to be in (by) Friday but the teachers want it done by Wednesday. As long as its handed in on Friday completed . Then that should be it. If not, then they get a detention or what ever . The kids that have handed it in on time should not be punished /made to complete something before its due in.

We specifically avoided overly strict schools for our highly anxious, perfectionist autistic ds. In primary he had a teacher who “prepared” them for secondary and it was our worst year of school.

At his school, instead of supervising detention, the teachers are encouraged to run a lunchtime or after school club.
Every six weeks they have a one:one meeting with a teacher, to discuss goals, progress, problems, behavioural issues and worries.
If there is misbehaviour they’re expected to help figure out why and help find a solution. One of the biggest reasons for disrupting class is that they are struggling in that subject.
Bullying gets picked up on quickly, because someone will tell, in those 1:1s. And because the dc can go to clubs at lunch, it’s harder for bullies to find victims. Plus they make friends with other year groups in clubs which reduces isolation.

The teachers encourage respectful communication by modelling g it themselves and it’s really obvious that the boys are used to conversing with and being listened to.

Homework is manageable - if the kids feel overloaded, they say so and the teacher might extend the deadline, particularly in the last sessions of the day. In first year they expect an hour of homework and half hour of study, and if it’s not all done a parent signs the journal. No biggie.

The biggest issue they have is with exchange students who take a while to settle down because they’re used to being yelled at.

It’s a small school, and it’s private, though not eye wateringly expensive. In state schools it can be more of a crowd control/numbers/resources issue. But a lot of these strategies could be implemented easily. The problem is that it’s self perpetuating - the staff in his school love working there, and that in itself contributes to a good atmosphere. But when teaching is a misery, everyone suffers.

@Happyinarcon
This is our experience too. Heavy enforcement of arbitrary rules inconsistently applied.

I think most of these things are perfectly normal.
I do not believe the school stop serving lunch before they get to the end of the queue.
Do they only get homework once a week?

Why are the school setting a pseudo-deadline for homework? All that's doing is muddling up what the actual deadline is.

DS is ND. Homework will not be done until urgency activates motivation. I could waste my breath and trigger meltdowns by nagging fruitlessly in advance, but there's no point in creating negativity for no reason. As it happens, I get spam email weekly to tell me that he hasn't done maths 3 days before the deadline; well duh, of course he won't and the sole purpose is to create email clutter as I can't automatically filter crap like that from genuinely useful emails, and creates and extra job to manage emails.

If I was lucky in the OP's situation, DS would see Wednesday as the deadline and do it at the last minute on the Tuesday which teaches him nothing about time planning compared to doing it at the last minute on Thursday. If I'm unlucky, he'll meltdown about the inconsistency of having two deadlines and a deadline that is not a deadline and a detention-not-a-detention.

I do care that he does homework before a real deadline, just don't confuse the whole situation with fake deadlines and fake off-the-record detentions.

Blazers and ties can stay in the 80s with yuppies too. They're out of touch with the professional world (yes, I provide the required garments while thinking they're stupid and uncomfortable)

Unfortunately toilets are an impossible balance between safeguarding/ behaviour management and balancing with health and dignity.
My DCs tend to withold from drinking to avoid needing toilets at awkward moments in school. This is not a healthy solution either.

Forgetting equipment is a problem when pupils can't solve the issue themselves and lesson time and resources wasted by teachers having to lend them out. (DS has spares in the small pockets of his bag to avoid this)

In the past, schools didn't need to be "to controlling" sic. They could use the cane or slipper to beat students into submission. Those days are behind us; we cannot physically chastise students (thank goodness), but there have to be some rules.

My school operates a "blazers on until the teacher gives you permission to remove it" rule. I think it's stupid. So on day one of teaching a class, I tell them that for the rest of the academic year, they may simply remove their blazer and put it on the back of the chair without fussing or asking in my lessons. Simple, quick and effective.

Because of dwindling school funding, we have to cram in as many students as possible. KS3 classes are now at 32 and in one of the 6th form groups I have 34 - there are only a couple of classrooms with enough seats for them. There simply isn't the money to "employ someone" to check toilets or whatever.

Parents most definitely have their part to play. The worst students to teach are those whose parents believe them incapable of doing anything wrong. They don't listen, they are arrogant and think rules are for others. Perhaps if those parents taught their beloved offspring manners and some humility, draconian rules could be relaxed.

I'll try give it you from another pespective - being a member of staff in a school. That being said, I don't actually agree with some of the 'rules' for students/staff at our school either.

Homework class, don't see the issue - they need to get their homework done or stay in school to get it done. I don't totally agree with homework, but that's not an entirely unfair rule.

Teachers, at least male teachers, still wear their ties to the very end. However, obviously blazers come off if they choose to. I am sure that if it is actually too hot, students would be allowed to take off their blazers. Female teachers, at least get a choice of dress/trousers etc. dependent on weather.

Toilets are locked for various reasons - the epidemic of kids (even in primary) vaping in the toilets, vandalism, bullying etc. It is extremely hard to manage. Teachers are leaving in droves, because unless you actually experience the 'career' you can't really say they have it easy. Not saying that you have said this, but general public view seems to be this.

Detentions for lateness, absolutely. Most schools give a 'grace' time, if you rock up over 5 minutes late - for example - yeah, make it up. Get there quicker and/or have a good reason for being late. Forgetting equipment, massive problem - those who can't afford equipment, can always get some handed for free.

You'd be surprised how teachers are treated as a member of staff. Then, think about how they are treated from parents. Not all parents, thankfully. They are there to teach, not to be a parent.

However, the expectation for teachers (in primary and secondary) to know each childs medical history, SEND information, certain home-life information, to plan all those lessons taking everything into account, with the influx of EAL (English as an additional language) students and planning for those - with approximately 10-20% of their timetable to do all this.

Teachers, at least male teachers, still wear their ties to the very end. However, obviously blazers come off if they choose to. I am sure that if it is actually too hot, students would be allowed to take off their blazers. Female teachers, at least get a choice of dress/trousers etc. dependent on weather.

i want a teacher to justify women being able to wear a nice cool dress and children to be sweltering in blazers. And that they have to ask permission to remove them. I want the actual justification for that.

It’s true that vaping is a fairly recent thing. But what it has replaced is smoking, which was endemic all the time I was teaching. I spent an inordinate amount of time removing groups of girls from the toilets during lessons, dealing with basins and toilets blocked with paper etc. So getting out of lessons has been going on for years, as have attempts to strike a balance between reasonable requests and deliberately messing about.

Maybe a different school would have routines and expectations that would be a better fit for you OP.

Are schools really that bad these days? When I was in secondary (80’s) it was mostly carnage. I think they’re far less strict and more nurturing now. Am I wrong 🤔?

I get what your saying about that toilet and agree about ots hard to balance.

The thread was made as a general thing I used my dd school as an example . I do think some of the rules at her school are stupid and Over controlling . But dd does tow the line and I have never told dd what I really think. As there's no point and probably not helpful to her .

But also I don't think its right to say if you don't like it find another school. Other schools have simlar stupid policies.

Well, effectively it's due on Wednesday. Then kids who don't do it have to stay on Thursday. But if they phrased it that way parents would be up in arms about their child being kept back as a punishment. So they spin it with 'helping' kids meet a fictional Friday deadline. Tbh schools are having to use this kind of creativity to placate some pretty unreasonable parents.

Yes. Let's just pop a job advert out 'Toilet supervisor' on minimum wage and see how many people apply.

@Brefugee i want a teacher to justify women being able to wear a nice cool dress and children to be sweltering in blazers. And that they have to ask permission to remove them. I want the actual justification for that.

What justification would you like? Would you like to dictate what all adult women wear or just teachers? You may find, if you actually realised teachers were human, that most disagree with blazers and allow the children to take them off without asking. It is not a teacher who makes the rules - usually SLT.

As for toilets when you have to walk through a fog of smoke (now vape) and shit streaked walls to remove 15 year olds having sex you'd get why they were locked. Huge safeguarding issues - I have know of sexual assault, attempted suicide and a downed bottle of vodka or two in a school toilet. We can't get teachers so no minimum wage toilet monitor.

Homework should be banned - just reading - until Year 9,10,11. It's more trouble than the educational benefit.

Finally to the parents who say 'we are not doing homework', 'my kids won't do detentions' and 'teachers are stupid if they think xyz' - you are part of the problem.

I’m talking from my experience. You sound very angry…

However, no teacher I have ever met has not let a student take their blazer off. Where I work, students know to just do it when it’s really warm. Though - a lot of our rooms have air conditioning so not entirely needed.

I don’t like half the rules at my school for staff and students; so you make do with what you can. At the end of the day, if I hated it that much I could work elsewhere and the same for any parent to move their child to another school.

Please don’t think I’m being rude - just giving you what I know. 🙂

It sounds like it is due in on wednesday and marked on friday. Why do you think, at this stage in the year, that if it isnt done by wednesday you have to do it on thursday that it is due friday? It is clearly due wednesday.