No benefits if unemployed for more than a year and other ways Sunak wants ti tackle the Benefits system

[cakeorwine]

This are the headlines - I can see some massive issues here for people - it's easy to say there are job vacancies - but what if they aren't in the area people are and there is no transport to get there. How does that work? I can see a lot of exploitation here.

There's also the other rules here around PIP payments, part time workers etc.

I wonder how much personal experience Sunak has of such things?

This is an outline from the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13330045/Benefits-axed-year-stop-lifestyle-choice-Prime-Minister.html

12-month rule for unemployed

Tory manifesto plans will see people on the dole have their benefit claims closed after a year unless they can convince Jobcentre staff they are actively looking for work and willing to accept any reasonable job offer.

Personal Independence Payments

Hundreds of thousands of people with anxiety and depression could lose access to payments worth up to £700 a month and instead be offered therapy to help them back to work.

PART-TIME WORKERS

New rules will require part-time workers on Universal Credit to look for more work. Anyone working for less than the equivalent of 18 hours a week on minimum wage will have to show they are actively seeking more hours.

Disability rules

The work capability assessment rules, which govern who is eligible for sickness benefits, will be tightened to require 424,000 with milder mental health conditions to start looking for work.

Sick notes

GPs could be stripped of their role in signing off people as sick and replaced by 'specialist work and health professionals' who will focus on what work people could do with support, such as flexibility to work from home.

Benefit Fraud

Investigators will be handed new powers to tackle benefit fraud, which hit £6.4 billion last year. In future they will have similar powers to those investigating tax fraud, including the ability to make seizures and arrests

I wouldn't worry, this won't be in this parliament & by the end of this year, chances are they will be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if once they have got the Rwanda policy through Rishi bails & calls an election.

I find it all ridiculous.

You can't guarantee getting a job in a set timeframe.
They keep saying its easy, but how? Depending on where you live there aren't loads of jobs going. Minimum wage jobs you still need top up benefits even if you work full time.
How many jobs are flexible around childcare? Esp when you must work 30 hours a week. So what? You go over month 12 thats it..no food on table? Not to mention there are not enough childcare places.

Disabled back in work..with an influx of every parent having to work 30 hours a week, with some disabilities being told they should manage wfh whilst simultaneously companies saying they are stopping it. Some mental health conditions your driving licence is revoked let alone with other disabilities. Other disabilities are only manageable on less hours. But these thousands of people now will all be going for the same few jobs..they aren't all going to get one.
So you just say they are work shy and stop them having any access to benefits.

With PIP if your mental illness warrants PIP, they can't engage with therapy anyway. Most people don't even get on a list for therapy as you have to have a level of stability before you are considered able to engage..even if you are on the list the waiting list can be a year.

There is no access to services anyway now they say any PIP claiment gets therapy instead?

Nothing really adds up..i am not the brightest spark and i can see a whole host of issues here and further damage and discrimination to individuals..they have the most privileged education, degrees ect. I would of expected them to see the issues well before i even think of them. I find it impossible that people who are meant to be so educated and bright don't possess critical thinking, risk assessment skills and act so ignorant and stereotyping the general public.
Are they on a wind up?

It won't be implemented fairly and people already have to convince the job centre that they are looking for work or they are sanctioned (which is already pretty fucking punitive). The way the tories are framing this is that there are people claiming benefits happily and unchallenged for long periods and it needs stamping out. This simply isn't the case.

And I can't even get onto the further attack on the the sick and disabled. Rather than tackling the issues that is causing physical and mental health crisis in this country since the pandemic (covid, nhs writing lists etc etc etc). The tories just want to increase the finger pointing at the most vulnerable in society and try to force people back to work who are too unwell to do so. Absolute fucking arseholes. It never ceases to amaze me how low they will fucking sink.

Unless the poor are working they are no use to the Uber rich (the ones who are taking all our fucking money and getting richer and richer off the backs of literally everyone else in the country) like Rishi, so they can either have all their benefits stopped and curl up in the corner and die, or get themselves back to work so they can make the under rich more wealthy.

Sorry for the rant but this makes me so fucking unbelievably angry. It's so so wrong.

Absolutely this!

And this- totally agree except for the not being able to do therapy if on PIP. Many do and are. It will however need to be specialised and part of a treatment plan at that level of struggle,not a bit of mindfulness and therapy lite done by somebody not that greatly skilled. It’s not the fault of ill people that they’re having to wait for it!What they seem oblivious to is you can often feel a lot worse for a while eg if you’re working through trauma, ptsd, an ED etc.Often you need a 6 month break to process what has been covered and will need more. If it’s something like psychodynamic therapy you may have 3 sessions a week and be exhausted in between. What jobs will tolerate that?The ignorance as regards this is astounding.

“There is no access to services anyway now they say any PIP claiment gets therapy instead? “ This in spades!!!! I’m sure many will want to know why they are currently languishing on 2 year waiting lists if therapy is going to be pulled out of the hat at a moments notice. Why isn’t it happening now?

Totally agree

I have tried all the obvious therapy (CBT, dbt, mindfulness etc) none of which has ever helped me ( I am considered treatment resistant). Last week I asked my psychiatrist (who I now only get to have yearly telephone appointment with as they no longer have anywhere to see patients in person which is useless to me as I can't talk to them properly over the phone about other therapies. They said there was no point putting me on the wait list for the other therapies as the ones they can refer me to have 5 year wait list then she said she was contemplating discharging me because I am not engaging with the service. I pointed out I can't engage as I really struggle to talk over the phone and so the appointments are just not in depth and could they please just see me in person. She said no. I have been under psychiatry for almost 20 years and I am about to be discharged without anything having helped. Not being under secondary psychiatry anymore will look like my mental health isn't that serious on a PIP application. It's messed up.

The idea that you get therapy not benefits is laughable.

I knew it wouldn't be long before some sanctimonious idiot came along and criticised my post.

Not that it is any of your business, but not only am I someone who has struggled with their mental health for over 30 years, but I also work in mental health so I probably know a damn sight more than you do.

The many people who I have helped over the years are the ones who listen, act and take some responsibility. But you carry on doing you - it seems to be working so well for you.

They need to make work attractive again by tackling cost of living and housing. At the moment many full time jobs aren’t paying enough to cover housing and utilities and unless you have two working adults in the household you are struggling to manage in a low paid job.

One full time wage should be able to cover the basics. If it did people would be more prepared to work but doing a 40hr week and still being hungry or cold gives little motivation. Two working adults should mean a life of relative comfort. Bills paid, a holiday, trips out. But it isn’t. I’m pretty sure this a cause of some of the mental health issues. People are burned out and exhausted and life is endless drudgery unless you manage to get a job that pays well over min wage.

😂That old chestnut- “ I work in mental health”.
There are many who shouldn’t be and that phrase can mean anything.

Yes seems to be working well for you.🤔You sound very balanced and full of empathy and knowledge.

They really have no idea of the real life nuances.
a person off work due to anxiety and depression, waiting for therapy, loses their benefits because it’s deemed they need therapy, what do they do while they are getting therapy? My partner had therapy for his anxiety it was 12 free sessions over 16 months.

someone who is working 16 hours currently on minimum wage because they have kids and are working around school hours or caring duties - now needs to get 18 hours - possibly pay for wraparound care which will then cancel out additional earnings or even reduce their income.

someone who is deemed fit enough to work from home .
but to do so now has to pay for fast broadband, desk, chair, possibly a computer if not provided by employer.
and I think this is dangerous in then leading to all disabled people should just work from home.
it would be like another lockdown for these workers.

and to remove the power for a gp to assign a sick note will be really bad and a waste of money.

I really hate the tories

Did you really just call someone describing her suicidal son a sanctimonious idiot 😲

This:

But you carry on doing you - it seems to be working so well for you

In response to this:

He couldn’t get out of bed in the day and was pacing all night with anxiety whilst battling suicidal idealisation.His life was on hold waiting and his education destroyed. He is very bright and didn’t want that life.

Is utterly disgusting.

I really hope you don't work in mental health if you thought that was an appropriate response.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You sound very bitter.

You are the sort of client that makes a health professional's heart sink when you are allocated to them (newsflash, health professionals have mental health too). The sort of client who complains, moans and puts the responsibility of fixing 'them' onto someone else. The sort of client who you know will never improve because they prefer to play the victims and will drain you of every bit of your compassion and empathy.

Life is hard, lots of people struggle, and lots of people experience trauma and lots come through the other side.

Try getting out a bit. You know, fresh air, hobbies, friends. You seem to spend a lot of time on forums. Not good for your mental health at all.

I always feel sorry for prople who lose their humanity in the course of their work. Some jobs can be very brutalising. Perhaps this week will be better for you.

As a reminder, people normally express concern to hear of a very distressed child and generally people working in childrens mental health express concern that there are long waits for their services and understand its frustrating for the child.

As a reminder for you, and other posters reading your bile who might not be following the exact thread of conversation you are responding to

You have posted this nastiness in response to a poster saying this:

Do you not think people try. It was heart breaking watching my dc try and just getting a beyond shite worker telling him to eat well when waiting for help he’s been promised for years. It’s laughable. He couldn’t get out of bed in the day and was pacing all night with anxiety whilst battling suicidal idealisation.His life was on hold waiting and his education destroyed. He is very bright and didn’t want that life

I’m not under MH services.

You are the sort of client that makes a health professional's heart sink when you are allocated to them (newsflash, health professionals have mental health too). The sort of client who complains, moans and puts the responsibility of fixing 'them' onto someone else. The sort of client who you know will never improve because they prefer to play the victims and will drain you of every bit of your compassion and empathy.

Bloody hell, that’s brutal. Would you not recognise that very poor mental health often presents as someone feeling powerless to change their circumstances, feeling unable to just get out for a walk, feeling stuck and ineffective?

There’s nothing therapeutic about only valuing clients who do what you tell them to, you’re in the wrong job if clients presenting with symptoms of very poor mental health drain you of compassion and empathy.

Sadly I think this is the government stance. Our young people deserve better.

There's a lot of talk on here about people living in areas with 'no jobs". Where are these places where there are people but no jobs? This is the type of excuse that Rishi is trying to eradicate. It's not a good enough excuse. There are jobs everywhere- you either do the jobs that are needed in your area, or if you want to do something more specific then you commute or move where the job you want to do is more readily available.

Well i do work, but when i was applying in my area there are 100 (usually more) candidates for 1 position. (After an application gets sent through it states the number applied)
Sunak says there are thousands in each area out of jobs. Out of that 100 do you think the employer would employ the individual that needs flexible hours or amendments due to disalbility or the one who doesn't?

The jobs were in a 20 mile radius, if you search for remote job criteria the amount of applicants is staggering.

Even minimum wage jobs, the local sainsburys or few shops left are not going to have hundreds of roles going...

Most disabled individuals probably won't be able to travel an hour commute to search other areas. So yes it is a perfectly valid point rather then excuse.

Sunak is planning to flood the job market at once with candidates..so that will get worse.

Most jobs are low paid ( so you are still on benefits ) , poor working conditions like shift work so they don't fit in with needing childcare and are harmful to your health , and very physical - which rules out more than half the population before you start -

care work and casual farm labour is all that's around here - no one would take me on for either of those ( I am in work but large scale redundancy is coming )

Moving costs a few grand that many people don't have and if you are caring for relatives and others in your community it's not a simple choice is it ?

You don't think there are places in the UK that have people but few jobs available for the population that is present?

Take a look at the employment rates here

Middlesbrough's employment, unemployment and economic inactivity - ONS

Surrey Heath's employment, unemployment and economic inactivity - ONS

Blackburn with Darwen's employment, unemployment and economic inactivity - ONS

Surrey Heath - 82% employment, 2,6% unemployment,2% claimant count, 15% economic inactivity

Middlesbrough - 68% employment, 5.1 % unemployment,5.6% claimant count,
25% economic inactivity

Blackburn - 68% employment, 5.1 % unemployment,5.6% claimant count,
29% economic inactivity

Employment, opportunities and health varies massively across the country

You can explore your local authority by clicking on the links.

This post is really sad to read, you sound extremely bitter yourself @Differentfromtherest

It's all very well saying do the jobs that are needed

But if you worked in a steel works that closed down, and the work available in your area was call centre work or retail, and you had no experience with either but there were 100 applicants for each role that had experience, how easily do you think you would get a job?

And you could travel out of your area but if there are 15000 ex steel workers been made redundant, and there are only 2 steel works left then you don't have much chance there either so you are back to looking at jobs you have no experience for

This is what happens when an industry gets decimated. Miners, car manufactory workers, steel workers etc, they can't all necessarily just stroll into another job so you get areas and spikes of unemployment and the new industries that roll into these areas are not incentivised to employ and retrain these workers.

my 25 year old daughter had a couple
of friends her age who don't work because "they don't see the point"
No physical or mental
issues. One of them sits around smoking weed all day. They've basically done
the
Maths and realised that any salary would
pay similar to what they currently receive in benefits so I can't really argue with their "what's the point" message.