Row with DH re elderly care home

[tiredsotired81]

Husband and I have had a row just now. My elderly father is in a care home with dementia and immobility issues. My parents had quite a bit of savings so they are paying for a private care home. Not the most expensive one in the area but not the cheapest. Obviously their savings will be disappearing each month while mum lives in their home still. Always a horrible situation.

DH has started going on about how people should manage their finances better and if it was him he would give all his savings to our DC and then have no savings of his own, and let the council pay for his care (if needed). I pointed out the quality of his care would then likely be miserable. He asked whether a more expensive home really made a difference to the quality of my father's life given all he does is sit in a chair all day and could do that anywhere.

I lost my cool trying to argue the point with his that it's not that simple or straightforward and he was sounding very naive not to mention unkind and cruel.

He'd be looking at either a criminal record or his elderly DF being kicked out of his care home if he did that as it's classed as 'Deprivation of Assets'

Or both

It’s not OP’s bloke’s decision.

You’re comfortable with your decision because you’ve made it for yourselves. Let’s see how it pans out, I’d bet my house that your son won’t sit by and watch you be a danger to yourselves. Our kids can have whatever money might be left behind when we’re done with it and I’m with @RosesAndHellebores, I want the best care home money can buy if I need it.

My DM is like this. Money is first and foremost above EVERYTHING. You would think she would be wealthy but she very much isn't!

Did you ever visit at night to see what the overnight staffing was like? Did you eat at both homes?

Hello, under which law is deprivation of assets a crime, please?

Because I don’t think it is. And the “guilty” person would be the elderly person transferring the cash etc to the younger person (council would then seek tomcleaim this back)

@SheilaFentiman In many cases (not all) it's called fraud! I've known two people be prosecuted for it.

By law, individuals are required to state the value of their wealth during a financial assessment. If they are found to have incorrectly declared this value by leaving out elements of their estate, this will be considered a deprivation of assets and is a criminal offence.

https://www.ramsdens.co.uk/blog/is-deprivation-of-assets-a-criminal-offence#:~:text=By%20law%2C%20individuals%20are%20required,and%20is%20a%20criminal%20offence.

Thank you.

It's definitely not about missing out on inheritance. We've known we would not receive anything and we are in a fortunate position not to need it.

He's apologised for his unkindness now, saying he was angry with me about something related and lashed out. Not acceptable.

its your fathers choice what he spends his own money on. that simple. husband needs to mind his own business.

and to add I think that EVERYONE should be entitled to state paid care homes when they reach that age and needs - after paying tax for 50+ years of employment I think everyone, no matter what their wealth, should be entitled to care. it is then someones own choice whether they opt for private care homes instead. the same as the health care system.

By the 'council' he means other taxpayers.
Councils are going broke WITH people paying for their own care. If councils paid for everyone if they didn't, there'd be no monies for other things. There's little enough as it is.
If anything, as we all want to live to 102 the thresholds at which people contribute for care should be lowered massively. Leave £5k for a funeral and use the rest. It's what we save for isn't it? To ensure we are safe and comfortable in old age. That comes before ensuring our DC have an inheritance.
Unkind about your dad.

Sorry, but your DH is naive and ignorant about this. It's obvious he's never looked into the legal or practical implications of the situation in any way.

I would also be concerned about his lack of empathy (for your father, and for your own feelings in this discussion).

MIL didn't pay tax for 50+ years. Like many women of her generation she gave up at 25 to raise a small family and never returned.

I've never known a private care home pay for more than the legally required number of staff, or pay more than the bare minimum on food. I've never worked in a small privately run home though, maybe they are better than the big ones although I doubt it

yes and OPs father was one of those taxpayers for years. why can't he receive something for his contribution? I think its his choice and husband should pipe down but I also believe that anyone who has contributed and paid tax should be entitled to state care homes.

It's not only the choice if where but the choice of when. There are a lot of lonely elderly people stuck at home on their own with 4 rushed care visits a day and mane an hiur or so of family visit who would actually be much happier in a care home with company and activities (though in my experience they don't always realise until they get there). But social services won't fund it until they can't stay at home. So it's stuck in front of the TV at home from morning to night with no one to talk to.

I'm not saying council homes are bad but sometimes having a little extra money can make a difference to the care of people with dementia. My FiL had a private visitor who was a former trained nurse who had set up her own business providing a visiting service. Since he was mainly bed bound and very deaf he didn't get much from the general organised activities in the home but this lady was amazing with him and working around his deafness and confusion. He really enjoyed her visits and would remember them and talk about her (although he called her Mary which was not her name).

Your husband is being a bit if an idiot, but equally, your mother is not required to live frugally to keep all her savings for her husband’s care home fees. She would also do well to find out how to ring fence money for her own future care needs.

As well as being unpleasant, he's spectacularly ignorant.

I understand that if you've never dealt with the situation before, you may not be familiar with the ins and outs.

But isn't it screamingly obvious they would be legal issues attached to giving your money away and then getting the state to pay for your care? Frankly, I would be annoyed at how nasty he's been but also annoyed at how stupid he's been. Sorry if that sounds harsh but he's being beyond harsh! What a horrible thing to say.

I'm sorry for your situation. It's really difficult all round.

They were told that they would be looked after by the nhs from cradle to grave medically, not personal care. In those days that's what families did, usually the woman.
Elderly people who had money would either have care at home or go into a nice nursing home. The poor would be left for family to look after or go into an asylum

My mum has had two respite stays in a small one.

they had enough staff and they were fab. Food was good.

but there's a much bigger one nearby, many staff worked there prior and said it was understaffed and didn't have a good vibe from their POV.

Absolutely loved the carers both in the home and the visiting ones mum has now. You do an amazing job, thank you. Proper recompense for that work is not something I'd ever complain about.

A) he is wrong
B) it's none of his business
C) make plans so if it happens to you, he doesn't leave you sat in your own business to save a few pounds.

Do a power of attorney to a child or relative you can trust to put your best interests first.

Is he angry because your potential inheritance will be significantly reduced after the care home costs are deducted. He really is one grabby cheeky fucker isn't he? Quite willing for your dad to have a miserable existence so he can inherit instead?

Well, if ever he’s unfortunate enough to need care, you know what to do.

The problem is that whilst that would be nice, there is not enough money to pay for it The benefits bill and social care bill is increasing massively and there aren't enough people paying taxes to pay without increasing taxes of course which is not popular. It's a crisis which will just get worse. You say people have contributed most of their life but many haven't. A lot of older women have barely done paid work throughout their lives ( I come across these women regularly in my work, they have very low state pensions and have to be heavily topped up by pension credit benefits and all housing paid etc ). Many many others take way more in benefits than they will ever pay in tax. It's unsustainable ! Then you get all the older men who have been self employed most of their lives and never thought to pay their stamp either ! There;s a lot of them about too.