Row with DH re elderly care home

[tiredsotired81]

Husband and I have had a row just now. My elderly father is in a care home with dementia and immobility issues. My parents had quite a bit of savings so they are paying for a private care home. Not the most expensive one in the area but not the cheapest. Obviously their savings will be disappearing each month while mum lives in their home still. Always a horrible situation.

DH has started going on about how people should manage their finances better and if it was him he would give all his savings to our DC and then have no savings of his own, and let the council pay for his care (if needed). I pointed out the quality of his care would then likely be miserable. He asked whether a more expensive home really made a difference to the quality of my father's life given all he does is sit in a chair all day and could do that anywhere.

I lost my cool trying to argue the point with his that it's not that simple or straightforward and he was sounding very naive not to mention unkind and cruel.

Gran was in a council run home funded by government and aunt spent £250k on private. Apart from decor no difference at all.

I hope you die from a heart attack in your sleep.

My mum is 86 and was living perfectly independent for 17 years alone until 3 months ago when she fell and broke her hip, she is now wheelchair bound and needs personal care.

Her flat is utterly unsuitable with no lifts, small and narrow hallway and narrow doors and a tiny bathroom.

A cleaner wouldn't have made a difference and a carer coming twice a day would have meant she still wouldn't been able to go to the toilet on her own during the day.

My aunt suffered from dementia and was still fairly aware of what was going on but a danger to herself as she started forgetting that she started cooking or left doors open. She needed to be moved a lot earlier than "sitting in a chair all day long".

You can prepare and wish all you want but life has it's way to screw you up.

That was really helpful information for me - thanks - my elderly mum told me that she feared she’d have to take out a loan for her care as my dad’s costs go up. This will be reassuring to her (although I fear her panic might indicate some concerning issues regarding her own health).

DH can go in a really cheap care home then when it’s his time.

It's your father I feel for @tiredsotired81 , their generation was told they would be looked after 'from cradle to grave'. We all know there is not enough in the pot for us, but their generation has been short changed. We are dealing with this with my in-laws, and it will eventually be my mum too.

I agree about money not necessarily buying better, but on the whole it does. Personally I would be delighted if both in-laws and my own mum spent everything they have if it means they end up somewhere that doesn't smell of piss and cabbage water is clean and they are well cared for.

I hope you find a path through this, it's distressing enough watching a parent decline, let alone the additional challenges of finances.

Has you money minded, greed DH thought about that your parents may have thought about what he says but they decided they did not want to go into a coucil run care home?

Has DH thought about the fact that people like your parents like us had worked hard to save and not throw away their money and as no one knows really when they will pass on or become totally dependnet on others, they needed the money in order to keep their self respct and not go on benefits or seek help from family to repair their roof, pay for heating

Sorry, but your DH is just a greedy man - no offence

FYI - we are like your parents in a way, never espected a penny from anyone - we never got a penny from anyone and when offred by my dad as he had remarried young as mum passed away after accident i/we said give to to your young family and thats what happened and my OH's did not get on with my OH they were loaded and they left it to their other child and were were 100% happy with that. We have given away large sums of money a few years ago to three kids raning from 150-just over 200 - we did this as they have good jobs and wanted them to build on it but we have keept back well over the IHT levels as we want to control our lives as much as poissible.

The sytem re care homes is unfair imo, as those that worked and saved and worked to buy and look after their place get penalised and those that just rent and and little or no savings thorough choice for many dont pay anyhting but that is a diffenrt subject

Again, no offence but its how i feel re your greedy DH - tell him to get a better job work more hours and put more into savings for your kids if he is that concerned re other peoples own money ie your parents

You are worried re parents already and i guess its comforting to know they are in a half decent place which makes it all the worse re what the greed DH is saying and insensitive

Given the huge cost of residential care, councils are naturally very hot on any question of deprivation of assets.

I would just add, however, that council-funded residents will certainly not necessarily receive worse or ‘miserable’ care. In any case there are very few council run homes any more. My DM (who was self funded) was for several years in a lovely dementia-only care home, where I’d guess that a third to a half of all the residents were council funded - but they all had exactly the same type of ensuite room, and received exactly the same care.

Of course the self-funded residents will always be subsidising the others.
It was by no means the most expensive care home either, and we looked at a lot before choosing.

@tiredsotired81 if I was you, I would be extremely wary about what your husband thinks should happen if and when you eventually receive any inheritance!! I would not trust him not to think it belongs to him or joint money!! make sure it is ringfenced before you do anything with it, possibly put it into a separate account/

@reluctantbrit our desire is assisted suicide if it comes to it. Honestly we would rather be at home and a danger to ourselves than be cared for that's our wish and is documented. When DS is old enough he will be told.

We have worked hard so could sell our forever home to buy a bungalow if needed, but we have downstairs facilities and potential for a downstairs bedroom, funds for wheelchair accessible kitchen etc. By old age we will likely be in a position where passive income could fund multiple care visits per day but we wouldn't want that, we would rather not be here. Hence I can see where OP DH is coming from if he has similar views on how he wants to be treat in old age.

I think you are wrong when you say the quality of care would be miserable in a home you don't pay for. I visit patients in both council run and private residential homes. The council ones are great.

However, yes, if you have the means to pay for your care, then pay.

I agree. Personally, I think council run homes are better governed.

He just wants the money for himself and is annoyed you wont get as much inheritance.

I understand his argument but having some cash towards the end of your life gives you choices - often between a rock and a hard place- but at least you have some choice whereas those who have to rely on the state have very little.

I don't blame him for feeling shock when he tots up the amount it costs. It is absolutely eye watering. Even a cheaper home is extremely expensive, and to go against the grain my mum was briefly in a cheaper home which was completely hellish - a very muddled process but largely my fault. The expensive one she is in now is a lot better, but they spend the money on staff not fancy wallpaper. There won't be a penny of her money left and that would upset her if she knew, but it would cost even more for me to give up my job and years of pension to have her with me, plus she would still need a lot of carers as she's hoisted, major home renovations etc. And because the care is typically pretty good, people live longer than they think they will.

This is the brutal reality of successful health care and an ageing population, all over the developed world. And in a different culture, your dh would be the patriarch responsible for his whole family's care and he would either take the elders in and support the women full time to do the actual care (or to be fair do it himself) ot he would pay for the home himself. He should think himself lucky.

What he can do us do an Advanced Refusal of Treatment, power of attorney and a will for himself. And he can stop upsetting you.

100% agree with that (though my experience is limited). Private care homes will cut corners for profit, and don't tend to get the same oversight as local government has to provide.

Working conditions are also better if your employed by the council. The staff at MIL's care home (she was a self funder but it was council run) had all worked there for a long time and loved their jobs. Their employment was secure and they were locals who felt part of the community and their residents were like family.

The staff at my mum's private care home rarely lasted more than six months, and many were agency staff. I saw little warmth from any of them, and they just seemed to be going through the motions. They didn't hang around long enough to have strong relationships with the residents, never mind their families and visitors.

I viewed 11 homes for my DM, no council run ones but ones that would be funded by the government and ones that were more expensive.
With the exception of one I did think they increased in quality of care, the food, rooms etc in line with the price.

I worked in a bupa nursing home for years , they had people who were funding their own care as well as people who were entirely funded by the government . Private nursing homes are not full of people funding their own care and the ones that do aren't getting better care than the ones who aren't

And bupa were awful to work for as well

Too late now. If people want to do that, they need to gift years in advance.

I know a family who take a very long term view on financial planning. Using expensive trusts to ensure family money and/or assets aren't used for care costs.

They do this in their 40s - most family members live till late 80s or early 90s.

However they also provide all care within the family either through their own labour (95%) or paying for extra as a family from their own finances.

This seems like a good idea/good practice.

Family also provides care for lots of friends and alter their working hours to do so.

Many older people just seem obsessed with wanting to leave the house behind for their kids don't they. I constantly hear people telling me that they've put half the house in their kids name so that the authorities can't take it etc, but they never seem to think that actually that money would buy you better care . My dad is a bit like this, wanting to keep his savings just below the £23250 limit and keeps spending on sometimes totally unnecessary home improvements. I don't think he's twigged that his house could be sold to pay for care.
I am nearing 60 and he is 86 so if he starts to need care I will retire early to do that as I know he would never want to go to a care home unless it was absolutely necessary.

That's often true, my DGM was in a beautiful but not shiny charity-run home which was right at the lower end of costs and gave amazing care.

But it's the luck of the draw. The best home for you in your area at the time you need it might be the cheapest, or the most expensive. Having your own funds gives you choice.

He’s a dick..

I mean no one likes handing savings to a care home, so he can quietly think it, but he’s a dick for expecting your parents to do anything but spend their money as they wish., send him a link to one of the many articles on abuse in care homes.

It’s not just “a nicer care home” though.

It’s the steps before that. Paying for regular carers because you think it would help/be good company, when a council assessment would say they weren’t strictly necessary, or maybe only twice a week to wash. Paying a gardener or a cleaner or both that aren’t covered by the council.

And going to the home at a time of your choosing, again, perhaps before you absolutely need it. My dad was self pay (Alzheimer’s) and i wish he had gone into the home sooner because he might have had the chance to learn the corridors and activity rooms and had a better time of the last 18 months of his life.

Genuinely interested - what do you plan to do, if say, you have a serious stroke or dementia etc?