If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

Let's give the example of a reception at a GP practice. If the GP practice opens at 8am, and you are there hanging your coat while people are queuing to ask you questions... What is the point of paying an employee from this time.

Everyone should be ready to start work as per their contract start time. If you get a coffee or anything, maybe it's because they are not needed right at the beginning of the shift

You are effectively being paid less than minimum wage in this case which is illegal and subject to heavy fines for the misery. Obviously only if you are on minimum wage which many nursery staff are.
I would keep a diary of the times you get in, set up etc (take photos etc). Add up your total hours each week that you have worked, then check your payslip.
HMRC will be very interested. There is a list on GOV website of employers who have been found doing this.

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500-companies-named-for-not-paying-minimum-wage

*misery - employer! Appropriate predictive text!

Sounds awful 😞
Where do you work? Private or public sector?

When I used to work in an office, we were expected to log in / log out in our own time. So for someone with a 9am start, computer would need to be on and fired up ready to begin work at 9am. Finish time was 5pm, so you'd have to be working right up to 5pm and then log off, tidy up etc once 5pm had passed.

Now I work in a school and a lot of things are based on goodwill, you're kind of expected to do things in your own time. School disco, summer fete, school trips that take you over your hours, displays to put up that can't be done when the children are in. All to be done in your own time. No extra pay. Need time off for a GP appointment - expect to have the time deducted from your wages. I've never been a clock watcher, but when you have a boss that expects a lot but gives very little, it does make you rethink how much time you want to 'give'.

This was a trend started when people had to start going outside for s smoke. Its now unfair to rope everyone into this , including non smokers.
So the idea went like this: You turn up and start work 15 minutes early, then youre allowed to nip outside for s smoke. How crafty for employers to take the oportunity to exploit all workers now. Thank me later for being around a few years and savvy enough to know the cookie.

I start work at 9am and am an "on the dotter". I show up and am ready to work on time each day. I also leave on time, unless there's a reason to need to stay a bit later every so often. I value flexibility in work and so it's no problem, generally to stay a bit later, just as long as it's no problem if the occasional day you're running late. My workplace is fine, though.

My worst experience was a min wage care home job where they expected ...

1. To be in 15 minutes early for a "handover" unpaid, which for me, I feel should have been paid over the shift overlap.
2. The care home was near my home so over the UNPAID 20 minute lunch break, I took on the job assuming I could nip home and have my lunch. Apparently not. I was told I can't leave the site and have to take my break there. HAD it been a paid break and me being "on stand by", fine but it wasn't. It was knocked off my wages yet I couldn't spend the time how I wanted to, which was have some relaxation at home to recharge for the rest of the shift.
3. They docked off the wages a random ten minutes in the morning and ten minutes later in the shift as "breaks" but I never saw them or anyone taking them. I questioned it whilst being shown the paper work as in asked what the routine was over the breaks and I was told "Oh, this is the break isnt it? We're just stood here talking".

So they were basically "time stealing" for almost an hour a day! And so I didn't last long!

I can't imagine having to operate like many pp - exact start times, being an absolute slave that works constantly from one set time to another. I just get in at a reasonable time and flex when I can and need to.

I have always arrived at my desk 10 minutes before my start time. I was always told to have my computer set up and sat down ready to start work on time. I could never roll up at 9 and leave the phone ringing, while I hang up my coat and grab a cup of tea.

My work you have to clock out for smoke breaks.

I assume this was McDonald's. I worked there 10 years ago and yes, you'd be in trouble for clocking in 15 minutes or more before your start time, or even just a few seconds after your start time. They basically paid you in 15 minute increments so clocking in early would be like getting unauthorized overtime.

You should be ready and at your workstation at 9am to start work. Therefore any fannying around, hanging coats up, getting a drink, putting your lunch in the fridge, having a pee etc, etc should be done before 9am. You get paid from 9am to work.

im a community nurse and I start at 8.30am. Most mornings I head straight to the office and I’m normally in for 8.15am. I’m normally the 1st in so I switch my pc on get out the diaries for everyone pop the kettle on and sort out patient notes. If I have to go to a patient 1st I’m normally at their house for 8.30

I don't want a wee at 8.55am though, I want it at 9.30. Am I less deserving of scorn, then the 9.01 wee'er?

I have to drink and I have to pee in the day, thankfully we aren't quite chained to our desks and some things are pretty basic needs and we shouldn't be at the point of people being denied them.

I don't think anybody on here is suggesting that you should be paid for taking your coat off, getting a coffee, chatting with your friends or whatever.

The issue is that essential setup is just as much work as the rest; so if you work in a call centre, booting up your computer, logging in to your files, checking your schedule for the day, reading any customer notes, other preparation etc. - this is all work for which you must be paid.

Suppose you were a roofer on a building site, would you only expect to be paid for the time you spent fixing tiles, or would you also expect to be paid for going down the ladder/scaffold to your van/pile of materials, picking up the next batch of tiles, carrying them back up again, checking the architect plans etc.?

Most jobs are not completely one-dimensional and come with various associated essential tasks as well. If you can't do your job without them, then they are part of your actual job, and thus need to be paid. Any boss who disagrees with this is exploitative and possibly also breaking the law.

Where I work, on the days people are in the office, we have a clock card system. The machine for clocking in is downstairs in the reception area. It's not unusual to clock in, use the toilet, grab a tea/coffee, put your lunch in the fridge, bump into someone you know, all before sitting at your desk 20 minutes later.

The same machine is used to clock out, and again, you pack away your computer and might end up chatting to someone on your way out... Bingo 40 extra minutes between the two.

I agree. Sometimes I'm in around 9, other times it's closer to 10. Life throws curveballs. I can take a 30 minute lunch or anything up to 2 hours if I need to (very rarely admittedly), as long as I work up my 140 hours every 4 weeks.

I can't imagine having the amount of flexibility that some people on here do. I have always worked in care ( if I wasn't there at the set time someone wasn't being looked after) or retail (if I wasn't there at the set time the shop probably couldn't open on time).
Different types of jobs need different styles I guess.

I agree about most of this but we get drinks for each other including the boss so that will be done in work time.

I would expect you to be available for meetings starting at your start time so that does mean arriving 10 minutes or so beforehand to get set up.

My DH is expected to go at least an hour early (unpaid). He works at an airport and all the employees have to go through a lot of security before even clocking into their jobs. That’s part of his work and he does it without complaint, I on the other hand grumble about the unfairness of it all the time. 😳

Pay people to be there that 10 minutes earlier (or stop putting meetings in at the start time to prove a point)

I assume this was McDonald's. I worked there 10 years ago and yes, you'd be in trouble for clocking in 15 minutes or more before your start time, or even just a few seconds after your start time. They basically paid you in 15 minute increments so clocking in early would be like getting unauthorized overtime.

It was a large organisation in the US.

What about ‘knowledge’ jobs ?
So flexi working aside, if you clock on at a particular time, that means you are available and ‘on-task’ from that time - that doesn’t automatically mean you are logged on to a computer from that time.

What about the times during the working day when you are thinking ? Deliberately ? Considering ? These are all part of adding value in your knowledge job - that isn’t down time just because the PC isn’t in action.

(The story of the £10k bill to fix the ship’s engine comes to mind - £1 to hit the engine with a hammer, £9999 to know where to hit).

I get paid from 8.30 and aim to arrive at 8.25.