If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

Same here, but neither would I make a point of logging on 15 minutes before to be ‘work ready’ just for show. I’ve done many years of working for free, my employer doesn’t expect it and I just have less time to give away now I have a family and other stuff to do like make tea.

I have worked in hospitality as above and the pp is right that time is allotted in those jobs to be ready to open or close - why isn’t this the same in eg nursing if people need 15 minutes before a shift starts?

I agree with this, but in my experience, a lot of managers are unable to manage less productive employees - often because they cannot handle the confrontational aspects - and therefore impose blanket ‘rules’ which make the manager feel their job is being done.

The best managers I worked for were flexible and focused on meeting productive goals.

I know someone who worked for a charity shop. The pay was poor and they used to get paid from 9 till 4 with a half hour unpaid lunch break.

But they had to set the shop up first and then at the end of the day, do the tills, the accounting etc, all after 4pm

They had to fight to get paid for 15 minutes before and 15 minutes after. As they often had no volunteers, they sometimes shut the shop for 1/2 hr at lunch to have their unpaid lunch break.

I get paid to commute...

Are you referring to the people wanting to be paid for their productive time at work or to the bosses who refuse to pay their employees for essential set-up time?

I never get how the employees are petty for not wanting to give their time away free, and should show willing and commitment; but the bosses somehow aren't petty for expecting/demanding free labour and refusing to pay for a key element of the job.

What would you do if your job was, say, erecting and taking down scaffolding? Should you not get paid at all for the element of setting up and setting down: i.e. the whole job?!

Doing admin I log on at 9am on the dot.Seeing clients I'm 5 minutes early.The NHS get enough free hours out of me.

Yeah you should be in and ready to start work at 9 or whenever your start time is. If you are someone who likes to have a chat, use the loo, eat breakfast, make tea etc then you should come in early to do all that.

If you are in a job that expects you to be in 15 mins early to actually work eg a shift handover meeting in a care home, then it’s not fair to ask you to do this unless it’s in your contract and you are paid for this time.

Depends on the job, the industry and salary.

you wouldn’t get lawyers, accountants, doctors, teachers, etc wondering in at their official contractual start time. There is a work ethic to succeed, do well, with stretch targets and objectives where some may need to work over and above the standard weekly hours to get things done.

Also many career jobs have contracts that refer to working to get the job done, not to adhere only to certain hours.

For me, it’s not working for free. Benefits will come via progression in the business, possibility of promotion and performance driven bonus.

I can understand lower wage earners working to their contractual work hours but as you go further up the chain, where the buck stops with you, it’s less likely your going to be able to work basic hours.

When I was a teenager I worked a part-time job in Boots. My boss was what you’d describe as strict but fair. He always insisted we should be in 10 minutes before our shift time, this was so we could be on the shop floor at the start of the shift, not faffing about climbing the 2 flights of stairs to the loos/lockers/ staff room and dropping our things upstairs/ going to the loo/ getting a drink. It makes sense and it’s good practice to make sure you’re not late, because if your not ready and on the shop floor/ at your desk etc by the start of your shift (when you’re paid from) then you are late.

Ha ha ha! You're not a teacher then!! As a part time teacher I get paid for 18 hrs a week and do on average 30. As soon as I walk in the door I'm on duty. My unpaid lunchtimes are spent tidying up, getting ready for the next lesson and helping any pupils that need help. As I leave in the evening (after revision classes - unpaid), if I see any pupils misbehaving I have to deal with it etc. I'd love just 15 mins unpaid a day!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 By the way, I wouldn't do any other job. The 'thanks Miss' at the end of the lesson pays back plenty.

Firing up computer, logging in etc...is work, surely?

when I have my office days my hours are 10-2:30. I log in at 10 and log off at 2:30. logging in is work.
when I wfh I log in earlier most of the time, but that is because I choose to not because I have to and when I do log in even by 10 minutes, that is me giving my company unpaid extra time from my day.

logging in, opening systems…. That is all work and should be done in work time. You arrive early to make tea or go to the loo? Really? yet If you leave 10 minutes late do you get paid overtime? probably not.

after being drained in my previous job I, I decided to work to live not live to work. I work hard and do my job well in the hours I am paid for.

I know I am fortunate and that many have to go in earlier to set things up etc. I’m really talking about office based work.

Due to government budget cuts, lots of teachers barely earn more than minimum wage now. Many have been switched from salaried jobs to what basically amounts to a zero hour contract, with no sick pay or holiday pay. Unsurprisingly, standards have declined along with willingness to put in extra time.

I was a teacher and we had staff running into the building at 9am on the dot, and going for a walk at lunchtime so they couldn’t be asked to attend unpaid meetings. That never used to happen when they were paid properly and felt like respected professionals.

So I think this whole issue does come down to pay and having a “proper” job where your employer values you. If you treat someone like shit they’re going to do the absolute minimum.

I think this kind of minute counting is mental.

A sensible employer should simply care about whether you are getting all of your work done to a high standard, not whether you’re arriving ten minutes early or ten minutes late.

I keep seeing this coming up and don’t understand how it’s even a question. Can’t we apply common sense? Be ready to start your shift just before the allotted time. Only you know how much time you need to sort yourself out and how early to arrive.
The place I work is pretty relaxed about these sorts of things, but my own work ethics like me to be there ready to go at my own start time. I don’t start packing up, turning off my computer till my finish time on the dot, so often leave the building 5/10 mins after the actual finish.

you wouldn’t get lawyers, accountants, doctors, teachers, etc wondering in at their official contractual start time

Completely different situation though. There contracts will normally have a vague clause in it about 'and any additional,time needed to complete the work' or similar. So the 'contractual time' is the minimum expected, not the actual hours done. Or they might be the fire hours where they must be present and the rest done at other times, sometimes at their choosing when it comes to,hours/location.

You can't compare that type of,contact with someone who is paid per hour, sometimes even coming down to x number of minutes.

And as previously stated, some employees are penalised if they clock in too early, not just if too late.

Depends on the job role - I used to work in a role where we would have to set up - I was paid for the hours I did . We would all arrive have a tea/coffee and clock in once we ready to start setting up and same with set down or hand over - we clocked out once done. I couldn’t clock in have a tea and chat. They did try to change it to be paid when clients arrive say 9-4 but we all pushed back as it would mean we would be doing around an hour unpaid a day!

In the office role I now do it’s slightly different I arrive start work - grab a coffee may mean a quick catch up with colleagues around something so the flow of the day is slightly different. At home I’m ready with a cup of tea at start time.

That’s not right - I also used to work in a dentist and we paid for the hours we do - including setting up and down. It can take a good 30 mins to properly clean and make sure everything is ready for the surgery - I would want a clean dentist room! That’s wrong of the surgery to expect this of you.

Sad to see so many people saying it's petty to wait until start time to turn on the computer and log in etc. How is it right or fair that a company gets you to pay for things for them out of your own pocket? Would it be okay for the office manager to be doing a whip around every week because the photocopiers need ink again? Would it be reasonable for employees to get a deduction from their paycheque whenever they call in the IT department if their computer goes down? Time is money to a company and yet you're expected to donate yours to a profit making entity? Why? How about we start thinking it's petty for a business to refuse to pay for worked time?

Imagine an office based business has 100 employees, all expected to start 10 minutes every weekday before getting paid. That's nearly 39 hours per employee a year unpaid. 3900 unpaid hours for those 100 staff. That is over £44,000 of free labour a year just using NMW!!!

Depends whether you want to get on in life I suppose.

As long as I'm I'm in the office before 8.30am which is my starting time the boss is happy. We take it in turns to make drinks so I do it when I've been in for 10 minutes or so.

@DottyLottieLou company loyalty and going above and beyond used to achieve things. Nowadays that has changed. A worker who is good at their job gets more responsibilities and more is expected of them. It gets to the point that they can end up doing the work of 3 or 4 staff and there is no way that management will move them up. It's not financially practicable. They would have to hire 3 or 4 people to replace them.
If you died today your boss would be advertising your role by tomorrow.

I have this issue with staff all the time - if you're meant to start work at 8am, that doesn't mean you walk through the door at 8am - it means you're ready to start your jo at 8am. So if it takes you 2 mins to take your coat off, get there 2 mins early - if it takes you 10 mins to put your coat etc away and go to the loo, then get there 10 mins early! It really annoys me when people swan in the door on the dot of their "start time".

Yes completely agree with all this.
I worked for an LA once (briefly) where it was expected you had to come in at 8.50 ready to take calls by 9am. We were only paid from 9!
All those 10 minutes of working for free add up over a year.

Most people who have managed to climb the ladder high are allowed flexibility and don't have somebody on their tail, telling them off for not coming in to start their work before they're paid or for leaving as soon as their paid time stops.

It's nearly always those on the lowest pay who are expected to 'show more commitment' - by giving their time free to bosses who never seem to think that showing commitment should work both ways.

If you know that it works both ways, and nobody will be criticising you for occasionally leaving early or taking a longer lunch when the work always gets done, you may well feel more content to turn up a few minutes early and get straight on with your job.

Employees (usually those on NMW) are berated for 'clockwatching', but those same bosses are frequently doing exactly the same and somehow think it's 'cute' when they do it. Respect should work both ways.