If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

It has to be for some jobs though
I can't log in at 8.01, I need to be available at 8am

In most of my jobs I would turn up a good half an hour-45 minutes earlier than 9 because there was simply no conceivable way I could get everything done. We got an hour unpaid lunch break and I would usually work through it. Mainly to show willing, to be seen as a good employee.

Last job I had though was in a very toxic workplace. Very taken advantage of. I would be so stressed about the work I would go in on sunday afternoons to try and get a jump on the week. That all stopped when my boss would not allow me 30 minutes out of the day to go and run a necessary errand. Even though I had 'made it up' in spades for the 5 years I had worked there.

Now I turn up 15 minutes before work. I turn on nmy computer, go and make a cup of coffee, put my lunch in the fridge and go to the loo. Then I start working at 9 am on the dot. I work hard and honestly and then leave at leaving time on the dot... with maybe some leeway to finish a task.

My attitude is that I give my workplace my honest work and attention for the houses of work. No personal stuff and no slacking. Very rarely any chats 'around the water cooler'.

But that's it.

Fair, so for those jobs I would agree you should get in a few minutes early - particularly if you’re gonna be getting a cup of tea, etc.

It really does make a huge difference, though, if they're doing stuff for themselves - taking off their coat, rifling through their bag, taking a while to settle in, getting a drink, going for a wee even though they've only just got there - then this should be done before their working time.

On the other hand, employers need to realise that booting up a slow computer, checking meeting notes, preparing for appointments, planning for the day etc. IS work - and the very first of these tasks that needs to be done starts when the working time starts, not before. It is taking advantage if a CF employer expects to be regularly given free working time, just because they are not up to the basic managerial job of understanding what the full role requires.

My issue with this is that rarely have I met people who arrive on the dot and are contributing immediately. I would be in awe and admiration of someone who swung in at one minute to the hour and were immediately contributing to the team in what we have to deliver.

The on-the-dotters I have encountered usually arrive on the dot then have a poo, make cereal, sit at their desks, shoot the breeze and barely do a stroke of work in the first hour. These are the types that go for lunch early and return late, and talk loudly about the importance of regular breaks for wellbeing. They vanish to the loo for at least 20 minutes per visit and before and after any meetings as well. Then there are the coffee runs... Then they start packing the desk (shuffling papers, washing out their coffee cup, maybe another poo), and generally preparing to leave an hour before the end of the day. They also consider sick leave to be an annual entitlement rather than a safety net, so if the firm pays 10 days full pay for sick, you can guarantee they will be sick for ten days every single year..... so contrary to the additional unpaid 6o hours or whatever a year that the 15 minutes early might give, these fuckers are pulling off more like 100's of hours per year of just farting about.

As you can tell, I have worked with several real life people like this, and while I have always been someone who reminds people to spend less time looking at others and more time focusing on one's own work and output, when you end up picking up the slack for these fuckers it grinds the gears.

Invariably there is a seagull manager in this scenario (flies in, shits all over everything, flies out again having added no value), and this manager does absolutely nothing to handle the frustration, but maybe vaguely promises that your efforts are being recognised and you might get a promotion.... one day... the carrot just dangles....

If you work at a firm where people are enabled in behaving like this, then I recommend voting with your feet. I don't believe people should give extra unpaid work.... but my experience sadly is that in every team, there is a slacker and this is their profile...

Luckily I work for myself now so I can bum around on my own time and not be frustrated by other people bumming around all day. I sound more like an old fart every day... but I am NOT pointing the finger at any gens.... this is across the gens and across sectors. Some people are just lazy....

Depends on the job and if you want a brew/use the loo on the premises before you start your shift.

Inworked in retail for a while. The fist would all arrive at least 5 minutes before to take off costs etc but some loner before to have a brew. At start time on the dot we had to be on shop floor. This was after hours shelf stacking too so no tills and no customers.

In worked in a customer facing office and was always at my desk as the doors were opened. If I wanted a brew etc before this then I’d need time to arrive before.

I’ve worked in project management on flexi and also choice to wfh and work in the office. I just had to be sensible on wfh days to make sure I was logged on or at an external meeting place in my diary. If I was in the office I could also arrive whatever time needed and people did often grab a brew and chat before sitting at desks. No clock watching through.

Im also now a teacher. At one school we never had actual fixed hits but I was usually on by 7:30am setting up my classroom. If I was on yard duty on a morning I’d need to be out lonely at 8:40. Again finishing times whenever work was done or the caretaker was making it clear he wanted to lock up. However current school has a lot more support staff on fixed contracted hours than teachers (sen) so there’s an expectation that everyone starts at 8:30am even though for teachers this is built into directed time for the year so technically we start when we need to. Sometimes we do have an 8:30 meeting though and it’s frowned upon to be late. For the staff on contracted hours starting 8:30-5 they have been told they need to be in classrooms working at 8:30 not arriving and making a brew. I usually get in about 8 these days to eat and drink before starting at 8:30 but sometimes I’m eating and drinking at my desk at 8 if I’ve lots to do. I used to get in for 7:30 when kids were looked after by family but school wraparound meant I can’t drop til 7:30. There are special circumstances where start times can be negotiated but wither breaks aren’t it finish is later to less paid hours are agreed.

Edited to add that I also attend a lot of virtual meetings in a volunteer role and always log in a good 10 minutes before and couldn’t believe how many expect to log in on the start time which actually delays the start time as the host can’t suddenly grant everyone entry on the dot. When I’ve hosted I’m always on plenty of time before but I’ve waited in waiting rooms virtually for hosts who also log in at the start time. Covid has certainly made people work to time and not a minute earlier. And back to back meetings can literally be that without so much as a break.

I start work at 7am but am at my computer logged on and working by no later than 6.40. At 6.45 I'd be considered late. (I'm usually the last one to arrive too and I live the closest lol)

All of this. Only someone who is desperately trying to impress the bosses (and who is a complete mug!) would say 'oh but I have such a good work ethic' purely because they allow themselves to work for free.

@Nothingandnobody

Actually I'm not a manager and I do have a job. I just have a good work ethic.

🙄 You are no better than the people who refuse to work for free, and ONLY work the hours they are PAID FOR! You are just incredibly naive, and your bosses are laughing at you behind your back. They basically don't give a shit about their workers who stay back after work hours have finished - or come in early (for free.) You won't get any respect for doing this.

Personally I have more respect for myself, to be used like a donkey, free of charge. I have skills, and talents, and qualifications that I have spent a number of years (and a lot of hard work,) acquiring - and I would not degrade myself by working for free, I am worth much more than that. You want my skills and qualifications, you PAY for them.

And no, your boss DOESN'T give a shit about you, or they wouldn't allow you to work for free.

Have a word with yourself!

I agree with you that, if your own personal comforts take 15 minutes, then you certainly should arrive 15 minutes early.

It's not just on-the-dotters, though. I once worked with a woman who spent most of her days endlessly telling everybody that she had been in since 7am and waffling at them about how committed and hard-working she was (with the clear implication that they weren't).

On a few occasions, I got there very early when we had a huge workload and discovered that she actually arrived at more like 7:20, answered one very straightforward email that needed a 5-word reply so that everybody would see the timestamped reply in the joint inbox, then she spent a good half-hour on the phone to her friends and having a long, leisurely breakfast.

She also kept calling me 'late' because I arrived for 9am and then left at 5pm, whilst she (actually, properly) started at 8am and then was out the door just before 4pm. We had to have the small department covered between 8-5, and it was anathema to her and another woman (who became her protegee) to stay later than 4, so I was doing them a big favour by covering the later 'shift' every day (which I was happy doing), so they could leave at 4, but there were still always those digs about me 'getting in late'.

That made me laugh @MaybeRevisitYourWipingT3chnique !
I used to work with someone who did the same. Happily told everyone she arrived at 7 am, but then wasted so much time standing at other people's desks talking non-work related shit to them that she wasted literally hours. I once saw her bend the ear of a colleague about her holdiay plans, her daughter's new house. etc etc for nearly an hour. I was pretty new so let it happen but after that i would sometimes send a work e-mail to those unwilling listeners asking if they needed rescuing or calling their direct line so it looked like they had a phone call.

Oh and by the way- love your user name. That was the only episode of Embarrassing bodies I watched and every time there is a poo troll on MN I think of it.

I have worked from home since 2015.
Currently I have to start work at 8.30am.
I tend to turn my computer on between 8.15 and 8.20.
I then get dressed as my computer is loading up.
I will then log in and then go to the bathroom to brush my hair and teeth etc as all of the start up programmes are loading up.
I usually sit down at my desk at either 8.28 or 8.29

I start work at the time I'm supposed to. So if I'm in the office, I arrive on the premises at least 5 minutes earlier.

Oh yes, agree completely. Met these ones too. I mean.... I found myself wondering who the real idiot was.... probably me....

It's an art form what some people will do to get away with not working...

In fact when I worked in a call centre once and had a ridiculous commute home to get back for the childminder without incurring late fees, I had to leave on the dot. But i worked really hard and performed well all the time i was there.

Because it was dimly viewed, and i was perceived as not being teamy, I discovered that logging on remotely for just 5 minutes once home and answering just one query in the scheduler meant that I could maintain my position as a performer... just because leaving in time meant that I dropped down the list. Its crap. I shouldn't have had to do it.... but proof that playing the system saved me.

It depends on what you do. In the emergency services control room where I work as a manager, it's really important that staff are in and ready to accept a handover before their start time. It allows the previous shift to get away on time. Most staff will do their best to be in and ready 10 or 15 minutes early, because they expect their colleagues to do the same for them.

When I'm on my admin days wfh however, it's nice to just log on 5 minutes before and still be making my cuppa.

Depending on how its worded, its not unpaid labour. Its the time you need to get ready to start work e.g hang up coat, get a coffee, use loo, log on etc.

Just reminds me of someone who worked for my sister who claimed her lunchbreak didnt start until she got to the place she wanted to go for lunch!!

Our staff are contracted to work 7.5 hours a day. We do have flexibility in terms of the start and finish time (anywhere in a one hour window at the beginning and end of the day, so some people work 8.30 to 5, others 9 to 5.30 and some 9.30 to 6, for example), but ultimately they're being paid for 7.5 hours work. Not 7.25 hours because it takes 15 minutes to hang their coat up, have a "good morning" chat and get a coffee.

If someone turns up at 9, but isn't at their computer working until 9.15, I'd expect them to work until 5.45, or knock 15 mins off lunch, to make up the time.

You're being paid for 7.5 hours work, not 7.5 hours presence in the building.

Some jobs aren’t going to offer you any advancement regardless of whether you put in extra effort, so why bother?

Yes, that's my experience of managers and employers too, always watching the clock to see if they can screw their employees out of some unpaid overtime.

One of these things is not like the others.

• hang up coat: not work, don't expect to be paid for it.
• get a coffee: not work, don't expect to be paid for it.
• use loo: not work, don't expect to be paid for it.
• log on: this is work, you should be paid for it.

I am utterly astonished by the number of people who don't think that preparing the computer for use by logging into is part of your work day. If you are mandated as part of your job to do something, you should be paid for it. Taking your coat off isn't a mandated part of your job. Powering up and signing into the PC is.

If I start work at 1oclock, I walk through the door, usually at 1:00 and go straight o the des, which is next to th front door for Andover. Someone has usually made the late staff a brew so no need to do that.

if I’m on at 7.00 am will go through the door at 7 do the opening up jobs and then make a coffee while my computer logs on. I’m certainly not going to go in 20 mins early every shift.

It depends on what you do. In the emergency services control room where I work as a manager, it's really important that staff are in and ready to accept a handover before their start time. It allows the previous shift to get away on time. Most staff will do their best to be in and ready 10 or 15 minutes early, because they expect their colleagues to do the same for them.

There should be a hand over time.
As part of our shift we may start at 1 but the early team will finish at 2 so a hand over can take place. Sometimes there not much to hand over but some shifts will be busy and a detailed handover is needed.

Surely handover is part of work so I don’t understand why they are not on shift for it. I know some places have half an hour handover time. That sounds reasonable.

Handover time is part of the job.
The start and finish times should reflect this, and employees should not be expected to do it in their own time. They should all be being paid for half an hour extra per shift, using your timings.

It usually works out in that scenario because 24/7 job

So you would come in 10 mins before your shift but your colleague would then take over 10 mins before you're supposed to leave