If you start work at 9am, should you arrive at 8.50am?

[pontipinemum]

I watched a video recently where people were complaining that if they started work at 9am, 3pm what ever it might be that they will turn up on the dot if their boss expects them to be there earlier they need to pay them more.

I do agree, as apparently some places ask you to arrive 15mins early for a seamless cross over. Which could actually work out at nearly 60 unpaid hours over the year.

I have been bang on time arriving to work and would not consider myself late but I had 1 boss who would consider that late and she made sure I knew.

But if you want to get in, get a cuppa tea, say hi to people you aren't arriving 10 mins early to actually start work. I have worked with people who come in at 9am on the dot, then go to the kitchen for 20 mins before even turning on the computer.

I wfh now so I do tend to start a bit earlier then my official start time

It depends on the workplace I think. In a place I used to work they wanted everyone there 10 minutes early ready to start at 9am. Someone disputed that and HR were clear we couldn't ask anyone to even turn on their computer until 9am. I thought this was fair enough.

Personally I log on 10 minutes or so before and go and make tea/feed the dog etc and start at my start time. I make sure my staff do the same. Strong focus on work life balance and negative view on working any unpaid overtime.

it's really important that staff are in and ready to accept a handover before their start time. It allows the previous shift to get away on time.

Important to who? To the employers who REQUIRE the overlap of shifts and have two shifts WORKING at the same time. The employers need their staff to have a handover. This is vital especially in the healthcare industry to ensure patients/residents/clients receive the correct and consistent care. If they want staff working 15 minutes before they're taking over from the previous shift then they need to be paying an extra 15 minutes or giving it as a paid break during shift. And if they don't want to be paying for that handover time then they can't stop last shift from leaving when their shift ends, handover be damned. There's a word for forcing someone to work unpaid and it was abolished in most countries quite a while back.

Depends on the job? If you are in a call centre it takes about about two minutes to logon. You need to be ready for the call to come in at 9. They cant advertise opening hours as 9.02-16:58 to customers.

Depends on the job? If you are in a call centre it takes about about two minutes to logon. You need to be ready for the call to come in at 9. They cant advertise opening hours as 9.02-16:58 to customers.

It's irrelevant what time is advertised.
If the employee is expected to be at their desk switching on a computer at 8:55 then they should be paid from 8:55, not 9am.

And tbh that's the type of job this should apply to more than many others. Likely to be NMW, potentially zero hour contract and limited other employee benefits.

If it takes two minutes or half an hour to log it's irrelevant; it's work time and an employee should be paid for that time.

Well, thats why you have an annual salary, with a contract which states your hours and a clause in there about working time regulations because you will occasionally work more. You cant just cut a customer off at 4.55pm mid-sentence because you need to log off.

The only time this doesnt work is when you are paid on an hourly basis.

@RhubarbAndFlustered there isn't a last shift
I did that job for 11 years
So you come in 10 or 15 mins early but your relief also arrives 10-15 mins early
So instead of working 7am - 7pm it ends up being 6.50am - 6.50pm
It's salaried anyway so it's paid

@peloton2024 apologies for my lazy use of English. I meant the last shift working, as in the one before the next. So how is there a handover of 10 minutes if you can leave at 6:50? When does the handover happen? If both shifts are in from 6:50 till 7:00 then two shifts are working at the same time and the company is paying just one. Salaried or not, those 10 minutes per staff member per shift per year add up and it's not out of the employers pocket.

It usually works out over the year
But TBH with call centre work you have to be there early to log in as if you're not logged on at say 7am, you're late
I have to be at work before I start to log on. No point challenging it as turnover wise you would just be marked as "trouble" and managed out

People can say what they want about you shouldn't have to, but it's not them that would lose their job. My manager would look at me like I had two heads if I argued over the 7 mins it takes for me to log in

The difficulty is I have to sign in to a system and also a VPN. But until I am logged in and hit "ready" then I'm not working so if I turned up at 7am, I'm late because I'm not logged in

So what's the difference is it's 06.50 to 18.50 instead of 07.00 to 19.00 ??? Why not just turn up on time, have handover and leave on time?

In the clinical settings I have worked in shifts are 08.00-20.30 and 20.00 - 08.30 to ensure handover time.

There is a definite exploitation of minimum wage staff that should be challenged - coming in early, going home late, training in your own time, emails in your own time, paperwork in your own time- it's in nursery workers, teaching assistants, call centre workers, exam invigilators, care workers and I'm sure more. Sadly these individuals don't have the money to challenge legally, and there is often a culture of expecting more than is paid as has been demonstrated in this thread.

Yup, your start time is the time you are ready to actually begin work.
So if your start time is 9am you will need arrive before then so you have the time you need to be ready to begin work.
Think of it like getting a train. If your train is at 7am, you don't get to the station at 7am; you get there with enough time to ensure you fan find your platform, find your carriage, get through any barriers etc.
How much before your start time you need to arrive depends on what you need to do to get ready.
Edited to say handovers, opening up a shop and logging on to your laptop etc are working time.
Being ready to work means you're in the correct location, in the correct clothing etc. If your shift starts at 9am and you need to wear a uniform, you can't rock up at 9am sweaty from a workout and be expected to get paid for getting changed, having a shower etc.

This is a hot topic! In the past, I've always arrived earlier & stayed later, but that was on me. Now I've realized my time & skills are valuable, so you want me there at 0850 for a 9am start, then pay me for it.

Having said that, I have zero time for those who arrive at 9am on the dot. Then, the faff about making coffee, filling up their water bottle, getting breakfast ready to eat at their desk. That's not on. You should be ready to begin working immediately.

In a previous job, we were expected to be at our desks (unpaid) for about 10 minutes before our start time as the computers and various systems took a while to log into. It always caused a fuss as many colleagues protested that we weren’t being paid for that time and I kind of agree, we were heavily monitored for our logging in and out times and would be out on an improvement plan if we were late! I would love to know what the unions would say about this?

I would never work in an environment that was obsessively clock watching.

FWIW I'm normally an hour early for work but some days I'm late due to late running/cancelled trains. And I routinely work long hours on my WFH days. If I worked in an environment that picked me up on the days that I was late then I'd pretty swiftly stop all the extra that I do.

It really doesn't matter if you are paid an annual salary or by the hour. The fact is everyone should get NMW (£11.44 per hour if you are 21 or over) for every minute you work.

So if you are paid £22,400 per year (which is just over NMW if you work 37.5 hours per week) there is very little wriggle room for handovers, computer logins, getting changed into uniforms. Same as if you are paid £11.44 per hour and get paid varying amounts each month depending on the number of shifts you do.

If on the other hand you get £30k per year, you probably do have enough buffer in your wage for you to have to do all those things without strictly being paid for the extra 10-20 minutes a day it takes. I say probably as things are much more complicated than that... I've seen NMW breaches where people earn £60k per year...

You should be ready to work at your start time. How long it takes you would depend on you work place. Taking coat off putting back away etc isn’t part of work. You should not be crossing the door at 9am if you start work at 9.

I've worked for people like that. Arrive early, expected to start work on arrival [unpaid], stay late 4 days a week, even up to 7pm (hours of employment 9-5), also unpaid. Arrive late one day and get a warning.
It also used to be remarked on in a negative way if you went to lunch. ("I came past your desk at 1.15 and your phone was ringing, but you weren't there ")

If I'm paid from 9 you can be damn sure I'm not rolling up a second before 8:59.

Then the employer starts the shift at 8:50 and pays the staff from 8:50.

My work has many faults, but thank goodness this obsessive watching of others isn't one of them. We have Flexi, and the clocking machine is by the door, so anything that happens once I step in is on work time.

I go to the loo when I need it, get a drink when I want it and if they insist on a clear desk policy and a locker on the opposite side of the office then they can pay for the inconvenience.

Everything else in the office is micro-managed, so rough with the smooth I guess.

I've had a mix but you need to be at your station, ready to work at the start time.
When I worked in food/had food hygiene wear, you needed to be on the floor at your start time and in all your gear. That's a 5 mins time to dress, plus a 10 minute walk.
Office job - logged in at start time. I've never worried about people reading emails/half hour prep for the day, then go make breakfast.
One job (in a bank) they wanted me to be logged in/ready to work at the start time but that included bringing tea down for all staff and having my till checked before start. So really half hour before, unpaid.

1. Unionise.
2. Tribunal.
3. Get a job with a decent employer.

I have been involved in dentistry since 1990. Never worked for a dentist who would pay setting up/ closing down time.

you come early and you stay late - for free

Be ready to work by your start time. Equally, log off at your finishing time

Current job, if it’s an 8 am start I have to be in, coat off, drink done, loo done, computer switched on and all apps working by 8. Other end of the day, nothing switched off until dead on. Log onto break code for a wee, lunch codes timed. Found out the other day that even our computer clicks are counted up!

@Heatherjayne1972 I’m so surprised - then I realised it was over 20 years ago I worked in one! We used to have a proper clock in machine that we had to use! We got paid the time we hours worked - as some nights we would have to do deep cleans or get notes out for the next day or the worst was sorting out the X-ray machine with the all the chemicals needed!