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How to help with this situation (alcoholic getting no support currently)?

56 replies

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 10:02

(If you want to know the background scroll down, I am not sure if It's relevant and It's a long story!)

I own a house (I'll call it H) with an alcoholic who I'll refer to as B (we're joint tenants).

My friend 'R', and tenant rents a room in said house.

B has recently been in hospital following an alcoholism-induced seizure and upon discharge was advised to cut down on alcohol gradually. The hospital allegedly stated that the reason for the seizure was because B had recently cut down too quickly which was too much a shock to his liver hence the body reacting as it did. B had apparently gone from drinking spirits to drinking cider in an effort to sober up gradually and the lower alcohol level caused this reaction.

My friend who lives with him cannot utilise the communal areas because B is either losing control of his bowels/bladder OR just being too drunk to be bothered(I don't know which) so is literally sh1tiing/pissing his pants and throwing said pants onto the floor and putting new ones on or not bothering, repeatedly so there is an awful smell in the house, bits of poo on the floor etc. There is an awful smell in the house obviously, just not habitable.

I visited on Saturday morning, only because me and R have a dog, who lives with me but R still wants to see and I was visiting friends I dropped said dog off for R to have for the weekend, and this is how and when I learned of this current situation.

B is also very dysfunctional generally, the house is a tip, rubbish and food everywhere, mess, muck, B sleeps downstairs on the sofa, sofa smells, B's bedroom again is strewn with dirty and soiled clothes and the smell permeates into my friend's bedroom. Friend lives in bedroom basically, has a freezer and microwave in there, only goes downstairs to the communal areas when absolutely necessary or when exiting/entering the house.

Neither of them are employed.

I was over there yesterday, helped clean the house and washed dirty clothes, threw away a lot of rubbish, got B into the bath (he hadn't washed in months). I contacted B's Mum and Sister who also came over to help and his Mum stayed there last night but she's an old lady who can't really do much.

My question is, what can I do here?

I obviously have a legal responsibility toward R, as a tenant and she's happy living there generally but also has nowhere else to go, she has a criminal record and no guarantor, and is on benefits.

I am not particularly friends with B, after a lot of turmoil in our friendship but he obviously needs help.

Hospital seemed to have just left him to it with no ongoing support.

Is there anything I should be doing? My plan is to contact his GP and SS and see if they can help but anything else?

I now live around a 90 minute drive away but as H is in my old hometown I visit quite frequently to see friends etc and when I do I'll leave my dog with R.

(Background).

B owned the house initially. Before he was this severe on the drink, he was however in danger of losing his house because he was going to lose his (quite good!) job because of it. He confided in me as his friend, and I said if he signed half the house over to me, I'd pay the mortgage and he could stay there. He did this. I moved in and became his official carer. Don't get me wrong, he was an alcoholic then but wasn't struggling as much as he is now some ten years later.

We lived together quite harmoniously for some years, I got him on a much better mortgage deal so he is paying off the house now which has now a tiny mortgage on it, and I sought him counselling and did his PIP claim, took him to appointments etc.

He does go through periods of functioning and not drinking, sometimes for almost a year, but then something sets him off again (usually an upsetting situation or mistake he makes, or sometimes he'll go on a night out and get drunk, and unlike 'normal' people, be unable to stop the next day and it just goes on and on).

During the time I lived with B, I met R, and we began a relationship. R moved into the house with me, all 3 of us lived there again, quite harmoniously but B wasn't like this then-was drinking some of the time but not soiling himself and not anywhere near as bad as he is now generally.

Eventually me and R moved elsewhere, I carried on paying half the mortgage on the house B lived in/owned.

Then me and R split up and R moved back into H and became my tenant (or lodger I suppose as I own the house with B but it isn't a BTL).

Me and R get along okay, and I don't feel it is fair she has to live with this, but also I do have a certain responsibility toward her as my tenant and I would like to go down the correct paths with B, I just don't know if any help is available!

Is there anything I can do to help with this situation?

OP posts:
Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:08

He is a very sick man, you are very caring.

To be brutally honest, make sure there's a will for clarity when the inevitable happens.

Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:08

He is a very sick man, you are very caring.

To be brutally honest, make sure there's a will for clarity when the inevitable happens.

Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:08

He is a very sick man, you are very caring.

To be brutally honest, make sure there's a will for clarity when the inevitable happens.

Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:10

Sorry didn't need to post so many times with such a harsh view. He is an adult in his own house, he can live the way that he chooses. I'm not sur a cleaner would take the job on , but that's probably what I would go for.

Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:10

Sorry didn't need to post so many times with such a harsh view. He is an adult in his own house, he can live the way that he chooses. I'm not sur a cleaner would take the job on , but that's probably what I would go for.

Keeprejoining · 08/04/2024 10:10

Sorry didn't need to post so many times with such a harsh view. He is an adult in his own house, he can live the way that he chooses. I'm not sur a cleaner would take the job on , but that's probably what I would go for.

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 10:19

Thank you @Keeprejoining . Yes, too severe for a cleaner I feel and I'd likely have to be present as B wouldn't let them in, although R might. R has MH issues herself too Sad

OP posts:
Girliefriendlikespuppies · 08/04/2024 10:27

It sounds really complicated, personally I think I'd want them both out of the house with the plan to sell it.

However I expect that's easier said than done, is the friend on benefits on the waiting list for social housing?

The alcoholic sounds very ill and I agree with pp a will would be useful incase he dies.

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 10:32

Will is a good idea but he isn't capacious at the moment. I don't really want that conversation with his Mum/Sister either Sad.
He is damaging the house as he constantly makes 'improvements' to it for example he once tried to fit a new bathroom and then got drunk and left R with just a semi-functional loo and no bath/shower/basin, I had to sort that, and he's taken ceilings down and other things such as. It's sad as he's an educated man, went to private school, very intelligent just lost his way. No R isn't on any list, she's generally happy there, it suits her. Just not with this episode. I don't charge her rent as such because of the state of the house and the situation, she pays a nominal payment which just covers my half of the mortgage. So the arrangement suits us both well and we get along okay, still speak because of the dog and mutual friends, but she's dysfunctional in her own way too.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 08/04/2024 10:34

Hmm.

R presumably has her own room which is in an ok state.

The kitchen and bathroom are problematic.

The fact R has a criminal record means they would struggle to access alternative housing. If they are happy I'd be inclined to leave the situation.

Very few support services will engage with an alcoholic.

A cleaner is likely to refuse to work in such circumstances - it's not really standard domestic cleaning.

Could you offer to pay R to clean the kitchen and bathroom on a semi regular basis?

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 10:40

Yes R's room is fine albeit cluttered as it isn't a large room, It's the second bedroom in a 1900s terrace and she has to keep all of her things in there as cannot utilise the rest of the house-I wish she could! Definitely beyond standard cleaner duties.

Much as it is 'self inflicted' I do think it is sad that so few services are available for this type of situation.

Good idea about the cleaning, I wonder if R would do it. I'll ask her.

OP posts:
BlancheSaysYes · 08/04/2024 10:50

Assuming B still has capacity, there's very little you can do on his behalf. There are various services he can access if he wants to stop drinking and I'm sure he knows all of them. His alcoholism seems to be spiralling if he is regularly soiling himself.

The house situation is complex. When B dies, is his share of the mortgage paid off? I would be seeking to extricate myself from this whole mess.

SheepAndSword · 08/04/2024 11:24

Do you mean R has a CCJ?

How old approx is B? Would he go to the doctor as first port of call?

It looks like selling might be the only way out as it sounds like a complete mess.

TallulahBetty · 08/04/2024 11:31

I'd get them both out, sell, and support R where you can to rent elsewhere. B is not your problem.

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 11:33

@BlancheSaysYes not quite, mortgage wise but very little left on it (I think about 20K).

R has a criminal record for shoplifting, drug dealing, burglary and various other things (I am not entirely sure if I am honest-I know she had her four children removed from her while the eldest was 13 youngest 5). B is in his early fifties, R is late forties.

I can't 'get them out' as B owns the house with me, you can't force someone out of their own house. He wouldn't want to sell either and where would he go?

OP posts:
BlancheSaysYes · 08/04/2024 11:38

Get a loan, pay off the mortgage and ask B to buy you out of your share of the house

SheepAndSword · 08/04/2024 11:38

I think landlord/lady only check for CCJ? R needs to get onto the council waiting list.

Is B OK to talk to? It really sounds like he needs to residential or day placement but resources are so scarce. I'm surprised hospital didn't ask his gp to call him as a seizure on cider sounds extreme.

rumred · 08/04/2024 11:40

@PersonalityofaVacuum thank God there are people like you around. Too many selfish gets in my opinion.
I'm not sure how you can improve things. I have a very physically and mentally ill friend and she regularly damages herself. Mental health services can't do much, they've tried for decades. As with your friend she's a very bright woman but her childhood multiple traumas can't be erased.
The will is a good idea. Does he have any friends who can do some social stuff with him? Can his sister do more?

HobnobsChoice · 08/04/2024 11:55

There's three Cs with addicts. You didn't cause it you can't control it and you cannot cure it. B will only change if he wants to. He has been an alcoholic for over 10 years and has not engaged with help before. Why would he now? You can offer him details so he can self refer but he has to want to get sober.

If B won't engage with services then that's it. I had a very good friend who was an alcoholic, I also worked with her. Her alcoholism has let to her losing her children and husband, her home and her manager role. She's clinging onto a lower grade role now but only just. It's destroyed me trying to help her. She's still drinking but thinks we don't know. I've had to wash my hands of it all.
Financially you have a lot at stake. Is he actually paying his part of the mortgage? If he is wrecking the house through his "DIY" on top of the neglect and squalor then you're losing value everyday. You need to decide what will happen when he no longer lives there in terms of getting your share of the sale of the house. If he dies then it could go to family and make a sale harder or he may move out but not want to sell. Does he remember you are took on the mortgage with him?

PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 12:03

He couldn't afford it @BlancheSaysYes , I think he gets PIP money but that's it. I can suggest it to R but as I've said, she's happy there-it suits her location wise and if she moved out, I can't force him out and I think he'd be even worse if she wasn't there. It's a complicated situation.

Hospital haven't done anything other than advise and send him on his way. Yes he's okay to talk to, just is so out of it at the moment (or was yesterday when I saw him) that he doesn't understand or comprehend/acknowledge anything really said to him.

OP posts:
PersonalityofaVacuum · 08/04/2024 12:14

@rumred It's very sad isn't it. I used to get very upset about it. I talked to his Mum and Sister yesterday and they're very sad too but I think we've all become a bit desensitised because, well what's the point in us all being upset? Doesn't help any.

Does he have any friends who can do some social stuff with him? Can his sister do more?

I did actually contact one of his friends yesterday, but a lot of them have distanced themselves now. Said friend I contacted says he will go and see him soon. His Sister will probably visit more but she's a good hr's drive away.

OP posts:
SheepAndSword · 08/04/2024 13:11

He's probably coming around a little and will make more sense in due course.

If R is happy to do this they could share meals for a few days and get some b vitamins into him, specifically B1 thiamine. I went through alcohol detox with a relative and trust me, it was hell. They never lost control to that extent but their nervous system was shot to pieces and it was terrifying to think they might seize. I had to ration diazepam under GP instructions. No happy update I'm afraid.

It's best if the 3 of you gradually get out of this situation. I do think that it's nice you care about each other but it will harm everyone if this continues.

MooQuackNeigh · 08/04/2024 13:28

You could get him out if you needed to. You could force the sale of the house.

I know that you don't want to make them both homeless but it's something you may need to consider in the future. If he is slowly wreaking the house then it might end up uninhabitable with no heating/water/power and then mould/water ingress could render it worthless.

You have been very kind to both these people. Neither of them are your responsibility however and you are putting yourself at great financial and emotional risk for them, why?

Have you considered that them (or at least B) could benefit from being forced out? Rock bottom is often cited as a key trigger for alcoholics to improve. Currently he has you helping keep him in a home, clearing up after him, washing his clothes. Now you have suggested getting a different woman (R) to start clearing up after him.

I mean this very kindly. You are enabling him.

MooQuackNeigh · 08/04/2024 13:29

You could get him out if you needed to. You could force the sale of the house.

I know that you don't want to make them both homeless but it's something you may need to consider in the future. If he is slowly wreaking the house then it might end up uninhabitable with no heating/water/power and then mould/water ingress could render it worthless.

You have been very kind to both these people. Neither of them are your responsibility however and you are putting yourself at great financial and emotional risk for them, why?

Have you considered that them (or at least B) could benefit from being forced out? Rock bottom is often cited as a key trigger for alcoholics to improve. Currently he has you helping keep him in a home, clearing up after him, washing his clothes. Now you have suggested getting a different woman (R) to start clearing up after him.

I mean this very kindly. You are enabling him.

ginasevern · 08/04/2024 14:31

You sound like a extremely caring person. I think the first thing you should do is seek legal advice. I understand you don't want to talk to his mum and sister about a Will but I it sounds as though B is nearing end stage alcoholism. I don't want to alarm you, but be prepared to find him dead in the not too distant future. It happened to my DH, so I do know what I'm talking about.

Please seek legal advice as soon as possible.

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