Cost of living in the UK v the birth rate

[Potterpot]

I was reading an article where a young couple living in an expensive part of the country said they wouldn’t be able to afford having kids so they’ve made peace with that decision. I can understand why, especially after seeing on another thread that some people’s full time nursery bill costs £1600 a month for one child. The UK average property price at current rates is £1300 a month. That’s £3000 gone, before you’ve even thought about council tax, utility bills, food shopping, travel, saving, disposable income.

I understand being able to make the short term sacrifice financially to afford one child.

Unless one parent can be a SAHP or have significant family help, how are people affording two? Do you have to be high earners for this lifestyle now?

I don't believe it tbh.

You can always have a 5 year age gap to save on nursery fees if you don't wanna give up work.

I was 40 when I had DS and didn’t know anyone who had used a formal childcare setting. I had no idea what it cost.

There are a lot of parts of Scotland where you can get a family home under £240K.

3 bed new build in Bellshill (short commute to Glasgow) is fixed at under £240K.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146156021#/?channel=RES_NEW

In Glasgow we have a huge Barclays HQ, J P Morgan, Skyscanner, Santander, Ofgem, lots of different Civil Service, Virgin money, multiple universities, BAE aeronautics engineering etc...

I'm mid 30s and sadly made the same decision to stay childless unless my luck changes money wise.

I thought I'd be more financially stable by now but sadly I only chose an 'average' career industry and while my salary now is something I would be delighted with 10 years ago, prices just keep rising beyond my wages

What people really mean is they can't afford the lifestyle they currently enjoy and have children. It's perfectly possible to live on one salary while children are nursery age and have a stay at home parent. Many people don't want to do that which is their choice but don't pretend it isn't anything but a choice.

Average income is 2300
average mortgage is 1400
average gas and elect is £160
average water bill is £33
Average food bill is around £550
so before council tax, cars, phones, television, internet, toiletries, or necessities like clothes, shoes, costly nappies or formula, baby toys, or annual spends like Christmas and birthdays,most people are just about breaking even on one salary. Never mind an emergency to cover, or any sort of luxury, for many many years.

and for that you have one parent (usually the woman) who is out of the workforce for several years, no longer paying to a private pension, and taking a huge step back in their career. To say it’s a choice because they want to keep their current lifestyle is deeply ignorant of wider issues, and implies that for the many people the best case scenario option of struggling to get by and likely racking up dept is a fair choice, that they should be grateful to consider.

That's a good point, I wouldn't have known the cost of childcare if women in the office hadn't discussed it. Before then, I had no idea it was so much money.

A couple on 30k would be entitled to UC support plus help with childcare costs and CB. I understand no one should have kids and expect the state to fund them, but you would decimate the population if no one getting some level of support off benefits had kids.

But the cost of the older child (birthday presents, school trips, uniform etc) doesn’t go away?

But you can't have it all ways. I know PLENTY of people who were full on living it up in their 20s, travelling, flash holidays, nice cars. Then they hit 30 and started thinking about settling down and were like "oh shit, settling down is expensive".

You expect people to be able to save around £40k for childcare for 1 child, £80k for two children? Whilst also saving/having saved another £40k for a house deposit, and building savings for university fees on top? Because that’s the cost of it, even with the ‘funded’ hours. We’re one of the typical mumsnet families on over £100k a year and we couldn’t save anywhere near that amount pre-children, it’s unrealistic to think the average family can.

I don’t believe it tbh
You can always have a 5 year age gap to save on nursery fees if you don't wanna give up work.
can you always? Even if you struggle with fertility, or have to pay for expensive ivf, or if you couldn’t have your first until your mid 30s. Or if the reason you can afford one is because you have wrap around care from people who may not be able to offer it in 5 years, or any other number of issues. No I suppose it’s just that simple, you can always do it this, poster knows better.

Ah, the entirety of huge cities like Plymouth, Liverpool, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff, Newcastle, Glasgow Portsmouth - those well known dearth of jobs landscapes 😂

You'll get a 3 bed terraced house for £200-250k in all those places easily enough (paying far less in some than others).

No, they are not the City nor central London but christ, most of the country have never visited the City itself let alone become employed in that tiny space of high earning roles. Plenty of people who work in the finance sector forget there are other livelihoods available.

OP you're so also forgetting things like Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax discounts, Child Benefit - many of which a single earning household will be entitled to whilst one parent raises a child for a few years. They force you into work after age 3 anyway, so it's hardly forever.

But you can't have it all ways. I know PLENTY of people who were full on living it up in their 20s, travelling, flash holidays, nice cars.

Ok, but that’s not everyone? I didn’t even mention those people? There’s lots of people on the average wage, who saved up to buy a house through their 20s who weren’t flash at all. They make the average salary - which is bloody hard to save a deposit on whilst paying rent. Do you think people earn 2300 a month and save up thousands for a house deposit over a couple of years, and also live flash life styles? Perhaps the ones who have help from parents.

People do all sorts, I had a colleague who worked 9 to 5 in an office, got home and later in the evening his wife went to work, she was a nurse doing night shifts, in the morning as soon as she got home he left to do 2 hrs in a petrol station before he came to work, I think he did a shift at the weekend as well. When my eldest was a baby I worked weekends while husband had the baby, I knew two women who brought their babies to work at 6 pm and handed them over to husbands and while they did a 4 hr shift their husbands did bed and bath with baby and had dinner waiting when they got home.

It is hard if you both have a career and want to work regular Monday to Friday but people do juggle.

I mean people will take mortgage holidays, live on credit cards, scrimp and save to make the family they want happen when it comes to childcare.

but then after that, it’s just different expectations. once the childcare years are out the way- children are expensive as you like them to be

we are high earners with a pretty cheap childcare bill (circa £450 a month). We are still only having 1!!

We rent, and we are so lucky to rent at the price we do. We pay £650 for a decent sized 3 bed. We have lived here for 13 years since DD was a baby.

Up until DD went to school me and dp worked around each others hours. It was hard, but we had to do it to pay all the bills. We couldn't have afforded to put DD in nursery full time- so the compromise was we didn't have very much family time.
It was hard financially in the early years, and I am so glad we stuck at 1 child, things have improved massively financially. (Not that I can ever see us buying a house- because even though our rent is low, house prices are stupid where I am upwards of 300k for a standard house).

If I hadn't have got pregnant accidentally at 17, I know that we wouldn't have had a child, because on paper there would never have been a good time.

This.

@MotherOfRatios

Housing doesn't have to be that high in most of the country, it's mostly because people want a big forever home before they have kids. I lived in a tiny flat when dd1 was born and a 2 bed apartment when dd2 was born which I got for free by working as a caretaker/letting agent with my kids in tow usually.

It did occur to me that when I was growing upin the 70s/80s, some jobs like the prison service had houses that went with the job. I don't think that happens with anything any more - maybe school caretaker?

Also, you kind of make it work?

For example when I return to work following mat leave, we're only going to part time at nursery in the afternoons. DH will look after baby in the AM and then start work. I'll pick baby up on way home from work and do the PM shift.

One of my team is just returning from mat leave and she and her DP each do 4 day weeks. DP works weekends. And baby goes 1 day to child minders. It sucks, but it's what you do until children start school.

I mean me and DH have a combined income of £195k and we're still struggling to afford childcare costs for a second child... It'll be just over 4k a month minimum here in London once we have a second one – which would be OK but our mortgage is also huge.

I accept we're in a fortunate position but when it's a stretch for us to afford full-time childcare (even the cheapest childminder option) and we're in the top 5% or less of earners in the country I don't know how anyone is managing.

I have friends paying £750 for a room in a shared house, you are so lucky with that rental price!!

Not all of us can or want to live in some absolutely bin of a town where you can get a 3 bed house for 50p. Some people have to live in more expensive areas because of their work, or because their family is there, or shock horror because that’s where they would like to live. You do realise that if your cheap little town has an influx of people moving from the expensive areas you’ll be priced out right? Gentrification is a real thing!

Speaking as someone trying to find a 1bed to buy in London. Yes all housing is a problem.

try again

It’s also very easy for people to have multiple kids when they’re fobbing them off on the grandparents every day. £90 a day nursery for the rest of us kind of makes us consider the cost of children a bit more!