Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

My mum isn't quite MBP, but she was a bad Dr Google, who pushed and pushed for diagnoses that simply weren't there because she had to know better than the doctor.

She diagnosed CFS in both me and my sister, when the doctor shrewdly said that she suspected issues with school attendance.

And she was right - my mum got us up super early which caused genuine migraines, but also made us bog standard TIRED, not fatigued. And she wasn't a fan of supporting our wants for anything normal to make school experiences fun. So we knew that if we moaned we were exhausted, we'd be able to rest at home, and she could wield her googled knowledge over the doctor.

@Namechangeone please dont worry about your posts.
I never felt you downplayed anything but there are many posters on here (and in RL) that are very much along the lines of ‘if the tests are normal they can’t be ill’ which is oh so far from the reality.

As I said before, in YOUR case, it seems that there is a very complex dynamic going on. Unless you really want to stay close to your dbrother, I’d step back and not get sucked in all the ‘he is so ill’ etc…

I'm not sure what speriodically is, but given similar words it would indicate you don't really understand the concept of an overdose.

No one overdoses if they don't lol.

I don’t understand why some posters feel like jumping on anything I say.

It makes me regret posting, it’s not my intention to upset anyone.
All I wanted was to see had anyone else had a similar experience.

I’ve mentioned I’ve just been diagnosed with lymphoma and obviously am a sensitive wreck. Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh!

I feel for my brother of course I do - I just mentioned the work thing as he’s said he doesn’t want too and wants to just game all day.
Ive offered to help in any way I can. I’ve said repeatedly I can’t say much more because of identifying factors.

To those that have been kind, thank you.
Sorry for the incorrect terminology used.

I’ll see if this can be taken down. I posted on an anonymous forum I’ve been part of years and finally opened up to see if anyone else has experienced similar just to have the shitty comments.

Good luck with your treatment OP. You’ve been through so much already, I hope you get fully well and can get on with your life.

Apologies - mum has from a young age repeatedly taken him to doctors saying he’s “not right”, weather it be headaches, tummy aches, sore legs, sore back.
Many many tests and second opinions.
Going from hospital to hospital and then private.
Paying for explorative procedures.

Then it all goes away, but every time there’s a life event ie I’ve been in hospital, my various diagnoses, my older 2 siblings having anything major in their life, any wedding, then it’s back to using a personally bought wheelchair/crutches.

Sorry for being unclear.

😂 yes thanks. I'm currently sleeping deprived.
X

if you do choose to use it in the future though I won't demand credit or anything!

Not a relative but as a teacher. A boy in my then form was regularly off ill with this, that and the other (lots of “worrying symptoms” such as tiredness, upset stomach and migraines) Loads of tests, hospital appointments, had every ‘pass’ we could give him at school. So, so, so many lengthy conversations with mum - ended up a borderline counsellor for her. Lad was fine in school. Friends were adamant he was just playing video games when he was off (not academic so seemed fine to play along to dodge school) He was the youngest of 5 and I think mum was really struggling with letting her ‘baby’ grow up. SS involved sporadically throughout. Ramped up by Y11 as attendance was so bad. He sat minimal GCSEs. I do wonder what became of him. 😞 Mum was clearly unwell.

Fwiw about ‘they can’t be ill because <insert whatever thing you’ve noticed>, I’d like to remind people that not so long ago, MS was thought to be psychological. Until we knew better. Cancer was thought to be psychological. Until we learnt more.
Actually even now it takes about 7 years for a woman to be diagnosed with endometriosis. And … then … it’s psychological.
All of it along the lines of ‘illness benefit’ and ‘it can’t be that bad if <insert whatever>.

Its missing the fact there is so much we dint know and the fact it’s impossible to do all the tests we already have at our disposal.
It’s missing the fact many times, people who are ill mask. They mask being unwell. They hide the pain, the exhaustion/fatigue, the SOB until they are safely back home. They chose events where their struggles won’t be as noticeable etc….
And ofc, illnesses can be extremely variable too. One day looking ‘well’ and the next unable to get out of bed due to pain/fatigue.

Now does it mean that there aren’t some people who are ‘faking’? Ofc not.
But much more likely, it’s that they are not believed. Neither by HCP or people around them. More likely that the ‘right’ test hasn’t been done yet. More likely they simply suffer from severe health anxiety (which in itself is a MH issue, aka an illness).

But I really wish the gaslighting of chronically ill people would stop. It’s just and standard ableism. The amount of trauma created by that very attitude, esp from medics (you know the ‘having worked in a hospital, Ive seen so many cases’ people) is staggering. Not even going into the length chronically people then go to protect themselves (like not mentioning some diagnosis because they know it’s going to go against them…).
And let’s not go into the hurt when it’s your close ones, family and friends, who act like this. 😢😢

(@Namechangeone this is an answer to all the posters saying ‘oh I know some who is faking he says they are ill when they actually totally fine’. If anyone is ‘triggering’, it’s them)

I actually have come across it full blown, but also was accused of it.
I think the wisdom of Solomon is sometimes needed to know what is what with these things and there can be overlaps.

The accusation I faced was a school trying to cover up bullying and stop assessment for an ECP (as it then was) as they didn't want to be seen as having gone down the wrong path in the first place, whipped up by an inept SS department in the spotlight for it's failings.

I'd sought no medical help as Ds was very young and fine at home. A bit sensitive maybe, and incapable of lying to save himself. A tendency to go onto tiptoes, and carry his arms oddly and flap his hands. (all obvious pointers now, but not then)
But issues arose in school from day 1. Long story short - apparently being fine at home meant he could only be his 'true self' at school, so home was the issue.

Reality was school was a confusing environment that magnified difference. Home was a straightforward environment that didn't.

School told SS injuries in school were him actively lying he was being bullied to cover up that they were really from home, and to get others into trouble. Parents of kids involved, were keen to agree.

In the middle of it I asked GOSH for help, unaware the worst thing a parent (especially a physically disabled one) accused of MBP/Fil can do is ask for a medical opinion to decide if there is or isn't a problem!
I naively thought it was the obvious thing to do was ask medical professionals, rather than educational or child protection ones.

The first thing GOSH said, was Ds "didn't have sufficient theory of mind to try to get others into trouble."

Eventually we ended up with ECP, diagnosis and home ed. He made friends, did well educationally and went to university and into work. He is however still developing, late in life and will never accept help or financial support from outside of home.

We were very lucky that GOSH robustly diagnosed, and supported, but we went through hell and the damage to the whole family is permanent, so I'm cautious, but I've also seen a real case of it full blown and the damage there is equal.

....................

However the 'full blown' involved the active tampering with blood and urine specimens and behaviors that caused active symptoms of ill health, and some physical damage, though I think a side effect rather than intended.

It started with being had a go at for the child's low attendance, obesity, and aggression at school. There is no question that there is violence at home, and the child has been both hit for taking part, and also in other situations encouraged to 'get in there' and they are allowed and encouraged to gorge on fast food, which the others are not. They supposedly have to be catheterized every time to pee, and have been rushed to hospital repeatedly around this, but go normally in other peoples homes when Mum isn't about.

I think it became a mixture of parental defense, then parental attention, then financial reward. The child is now out of school and his mother is clear he will never work and be benefit dependent, so education is a temporary box tick exercise only.

Some of his difficulties have underlying realities, but the level to which they've been encouraged and manipulated have left him with a difficult future and he believes he is disabled, can do little and wont ever work.

Every time another YA sibling is in trouble, or SS get involved over a younger one, the other one's conditions turn into emergencies.

Some people are supporting you & alot of non commentators are on your side too!

Your parents sound bat shit though & I don't think anybody but a professional can diagnose them.
I'm sorry they arnt/weren't there for you

I found it perfectly clear too. How utterly bizarre. I really don’t know what else to say. Best wishes to you x

Sorry for the rant I suppose when trying to read through quickly I took in the bad ones more.

I appreciate those who’ve commented their experiences or advice/support.

I don’t think I should’ve posted when I’m this emotional tbh! 😂

But yes, I try keep as LC as I can and as I’ve said a few times I’m having therapy.
I don’t resent my brother, but maybe I do my mum a bit, I just want her to love me as silly as that sounds.

Your post reminds me very much of a podcast I listened to recently. There are older siblings in that , that also questioned their mothers motives .

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/believe-in-magic/id1683405079

I’ve studied MBP for many years. You’re very welcome to DM me.

look up Dr Marc Feldman. He’s the worlds no 1 with regards to this. He helps tons of people if you reach out too

Dismissing people who are describing their battles with invisible disabilities in this way is utterly revolting.

There's a huge gulf between well enough to play video games and well enough for school. A lot of chronically ill people find solace in video games. When I am really weak I play them with my children, lying down, it's a nice way to spend time together. I can't hold my head up or speak or swallow easily but I can play video games/watch TV/read a book

I will tonight if that’s okay? Thank you for your kind offer

I wonder if we know the same person! In my case she insists on all her supposedly ND children having multiple disorders (as in more than half a dozen diagnoses each). It is so sad as these are vulnerable children anyway for other reasons and I can’t imagine what the long term effect will be on their mental health and self-esteem. I am considering distancing myself from her but feel terrible in case I am wrong.

OP, have you looked at the Stately Homes threads ? They are good for managing difficult family dynamics.

I think you have done really well to identify what’s going on.

Two things are glaringly obvious to me- you will never have the mum you deserved. She doesn’t exist. Let that go. You can reparent your inner child, which is important for your physical health as well. I find it interesting that the child that’s been rejected so blatantly by her mum, is the one with real significant health issues. So work on you.

Your brother and his parents- well they are none of your concern. Let that go, too. Don’t share your health information with them. Grey rock them. Let the medics manage the fictitious illness. You can do this without falling out with them. Just play along. That’s ok. It isn’t your responsibility to stand up to them.

💐 It’s a crap situation. But it’s not your crap. Learn about grey rock and let everything wash over you.

My mum was accused of it. She was right - there's far more going on with me than just my visual impairment. I'm now 35 and waiting for a lot of tests relating to the stuff my mum was accused of imagining

I have a friend whose daughter has a rare syndrome. She's been accused of imagining her daughter's epilepsy. Funny how when her daughter was with her dad he saw it too

Sorry you and your family and your friends family have gone through this. The arrogance of the medical profession, and of people who judge rather than listen, is astounding

Sorry for your illness OP. It does sound as if there's some MBP going on here. Not beyond the realms of possibility that after years of this your DB is so traumatised by events around him that there is a valid physiological response to them.

Similar here, I hugely sympathise. DD wasn't diagnosed till 14. I have 7 years of primary school reports saying what a lovely child she was, pleasure to teach etc. All fawning and masking. She coped while in her familiar small primary, but transition to secondary was a disaster, she hit autistic burnout and hasn't been back in school since, she has additional diagnoses now of OCD, anxiety, depression and PTSD. If I went back to her primary school now and told them I very much doubt they'd believe me, because in their eyes she was quiet and no trouble.