Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

I understood your post too OP. You have nothing to apologise for.

I'm sorry about your diagnosis too and that your "D"Ps aren't more supportive

I have definitely seen this professionally. Children who present as 100% neurotypical (the ones I am thinking of are really happy, bubbly, lovely children) but parents who aggressively demand it's otherwise and a relentless insistence that there is masking. There 'proof' is things like 'they have a meltdown about doing their homework'. Yep that's what children do.

*their!

I have experience of it through my job in education (think social care refer to it as fabricated illness) and I’m absolutely gobsmacked about the inaction of police and social care when it’s patently obvious what’s going on.

Yes unfortunately many times and for a variety of reasons. Some motivated by attention others for financial gain. Really really sad. 2 siblings who made miraculous recovery from their severe developmental delay once taken into Foster care. 1 died from a salt overdose. Others more minor.

I remember a consultant was disciplined for placing a hidden camera in a hospital side room which caught parents in the act of doing something unthinkable to their child. He always said he did not regret his actions as it probably saved the child's life in the long run.

Also all the high profile cases of nurses and doctors who have harmed or killed patients in their care are a form of this I think ?

Sorry but your posts are still a little unclear, and I am unsure with whom you think the issue lies.

Do you think:

• your DM is making up symptoms her son is experiencing/ doing something to make him ill (munchausen's by proxy)

- or your brother is faking the symptoms/ deliberately making himself ill (Munchausen's [not 'by proxy'])

• or your brother believes he is unwell for no good reason (health anxiety/hypochondria)?

Your post was perfectly clear. Some posters get a kick out of pretending to be completely thick and unable to read opening posts.

Do you know much about your brothers future wife and her thoughts about his illness.

It might be the chance he needs to break free from your parents control.

Is it worth trying to connect with her to see if she can be encouraged to help him distance himself once they are married even just as a test initially to see where the underlying issues stem from (your parents, himself or a bit of both ?)

The thing is, it’s possible your brother does have severe sporadic undiagnosed pain/difficulty walking, how would you actually know? Especially if you don’t live with him, and the lens of your parents lack of empathy for you will affect your perception of their lives and your brothers life.
I don’t think it’s munchausens by proxy as I thought that involved inducing illnesses (may be mistaken there).

I was wrongly accused of it a few years ago. It was absolutely horrific. It’s called FII now (fabricated or induced illness). Nearly lost my dc. I know it happens but it’s incredibly rare-I was accused and had to really fight to prove it wasn’t the case . I have PTSD due to it

How awful. Can you go NC with your Mum?

Heard a Sounds Like a Cult podcast on this, interview with an American lady called Andrea Dunlop whose sister had very sadly done this to her DC.

"having been told by my mum herself she felt no unconditional love for me (but did the elder 2?)
I was always called the “after birth” as a nickname and had no idea what it meant until I became a mum myself."

That's shocking. I am really moved by that OP. That's emotional abuse.

IF I had felt different feelings towards one of my kids I would never have told anyone, let alone the child themselves. You sound like an amazing mum and should be so proud of yourself.

I have met one mum like this. She would gain information from other parents of kids who have the disability she wanted her child diagnosed with and tell everyone her child has the symptoms. She became quite obsessive and harassed a family and there child who did have a diagnosis for the condition she was desperate for her child to be diagnosed with. The police had to step in and social work. Eventually I believe she lost custody of her child as she was destroying his life. The child is doing much better now and is living a very healthy and active life because she is no longer the resident parent.

I know someone a bit like this I think, the health scares definitely ramp up when the attention is on another family member like a wedding or new baby - that time, the MBP parent (if that was what it was) was calling up the day before the wedding, 'not wanting to cause a drama but we're in A&E with child'.

Also a lot of drama and noise around normal childhood illnesses. And then other people's health issues, often very serious, were dismissed (including cancer.)

I sympathise and have some idea of where you are coming from. It's very immature. Stay away from them as much as possible and you're life will be far more peaceful. I wish you well.

You sound like you've had a lucky escape not being raised by them. Who has 3 children and passes them off to grandparents only to go and have 2 more?? Your brother is an adult. If he's at the point of getting married why is he living at home. Personally I'd cut all contact with that part of the family, count your blessings, and concentrate on your own life. Its hard and its unfortunate he's suffered being brought up by your parents, but he is an adult and he should be getting out of there.

I think some of these cases are more of an example of health anxiety by proxy. Isn't that different than what the OP is getting at?

No, children don’t generally have meltdowns about doing homework. My DD grumbles and moans. My DS would be crying, shouting, throwing things and hitting me. His teacher didn’t believe he was autistic as he caused her no problems at school. I think she barely noticed he was there, in fact. He was a very different child at home. Diagnosed autistic by CAMHS, not by me.

I don’t think that what you’re describing is munchausens by proxy because that’s when the parent insists the child is ill and gives them medicines/invent symptoms whereas what you’re describing is your dbrother starting to say he has symptoms etc… when something happens to you.

Im also very weary of any situation where it’s assumed that the person is well because ‘nothing was found on the test’. But that’s because I’m suffering from an illness where there is no test. All usual tests normally come back ok and yet I’m still seriously ill. (And yes it’s pretty crap).

However, it might well be that your dbrother has something else going on and can’t cope with some limelight being out onto you. In which case, 1- I’d step back and take as little notice as possible and 2- his childhood was probably crap.
Because I personally know it can years to have some conditions diagnosed, esp if they are fluctuating etc…. I would give him the benefit if the doubt. This does NOT and should NOT diminish what you’re going through. If you find that your parents are then only focusing on him etc…then that’s on them. Regardless of whether your dbrother ill es is ‘fabricated’ or not

The OP only mentions cancer in a later post, which was posted barely a minute before the post youre criticising. It’s fairly soft to assume that both were typing their posts at the same time and the OP posted their update whilst the other poster was composing their post. It happens frequently. No need for the snark.

Not a serious form, no. But one of the mothers at school was quite unhinged about her younger daughter's health. The mother worked in the medical profession - she was not a doctor or a nurse, but related. Similar to a physio. She was constantly at the doctor with the younger child, she always had something "wrong" with her, was always sitting out of games and PE with a note from her mother, repeated A&E trips after falls or minor accidents, one time there was a trampoline party for the girls in the class and this child turned up with a sling on her arm as the mother said she had injured it. This was a fairly regular occurrence, the child turning up bandaged or with plasters on for no real reason. She was constantly telling everyone who would listed that her child was ill, fragile, delicate (which used to very much wind up other parents whose children had serious medical difficulties).

Latest I heard was the mother had "diagnosed" the daughter as coeliac and put her on a GF diet.

It really doesn't take that much effort to join the dots and realise what the OP meant. I realised as soon as I realised the usual acronyms don't make sense.

So many urgh people on this thread.

Always thought the mother of Jazz Jennings was guilty of MHB. All played out on the tv in plain site.

@Namechangeone you are mentioning being NC (or LC).

Regardless of your dbrother, your parents seem to have behaved appaulingly when you were young (and now?).
Id step back massively from them just because of that.

Your dbrother is more of a distraction iyswim. Your parents reaction to his illness vs yours highlights the difference in treatment once again. But tbh it looks like just one more thing in an already very long list.
Im not sure trying to sort out whether your dbrother is really ill or not is worth it unless you really want to keep that relationship with him going. But as you mainly talk about your parents, i suspect your issue is with them.
So I’d deal with it as an issue with your parents. And I’d properly go NC.

Do you know what happened to this family? Were they charged with anything?

DS4 who grew up with DP has perfect health

The DS has perfect health? Or you think he has perfect health?

Its hard to work out if the brother is (or why the brother is) going along with this?