Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

Just to sound a note of caution.

I found out in my early 40s that I had a rare genetic condition that explains all my battles my whole life. I am really hurt and angry at all the people who didn't believe me, including medical staff. I know others who weren't diagnosed with our condition (or similar conditions) to a similar age too. I have battled my whole life because I was made to feel my illness wasn't real.

(and yes, it flares and relapses and fluctuates daily so I might be swimming in the morning and unable to speak clearly or move much by the afternoon)

(and yes, it flares and relapses so varies hugely in severity and it also fluctuates daily so if I don't pace carefully I might be swimming in the morning and unable to speak clearly or move much by the afternoon)

@SpaghettiWithaYeti I’m so sorry to hear of your battle 😔

I empathise a bit, I had a rare undiagnosed endocrine tumour and lupus, that took a while to diagnose.

I really hope that this hasn’t triggered you at all, I didn’t think of the sensitivity surrounding this topic, my apologies

not full on factitious illness but somebody who exaggerates stories and seems to create symptoms (ASD and ADD) which seem to be totally in realms of ‘normal’ behaviour. It’s like a fixation on her children being ND. Describes them as being academically behind them slips up saying something that contradicts it.

Quite exhausting

@ColdinNovember that sounds exhausting tbh

I can see it in my husbands family with one of his sisters and his mother that has facilitated iatrogenic illness. I don't know if you can call it MBP but there's definitely this codependency where his sister is crying out for 'attention' and used medical interventions to try to appease this and her mother that for years has appeared to facilitate it. My DH is now mostly NC with his sister.

And this brother is getting married? If so what does his wife think about it?

Yes I've come as odd something very similar at work. Very stressful for all staff involved.

Yeah I'm sorry but I agree with this.

DS is YOUR son, then later you say brother etc

I have come across this twice with work. Both cases social services are heavily involved

I know someone similar, @ColdinNovember. She’s determined that her children are ND and every physical ailment, such as a cold, is a big deal. They have loads of GP and hospital visits, even though they seem to bounce back from minor illness like most healthy children.

It’s worrying, tbh, I have wondered whether her children are growing up thinking that they have serious health problems.

I rewrote the post a few comments down so it made sense.
I hadn’t the option to edit it & even reached out to MN.

I did apologise, it was literally a few comments further down.

@Ohwhatfuckeryitistoride - they have sympathy and don’t know what they’re letting themselves in. I did gently try and talk to her ages ago but I’m the “mentally unstable, forgetful one due to my meds”.

@Toddlerteaplease was it a colleague who had it?

@bananasstink I personally don’t understand how it’s gone on for 20+ years. SS were aware us older siblings lived with grandparents. Ironically it was around the time I started becoming very poorly & having various operations without even a visit.
Due to their upstanding jobs I think we may have managed to keep under the radar? My memory has blanks - therapist said it’s from trauma. So I can’t give a completely accurate account.

@BruFord that's so sad 😞 as someone with a ND child I wouldn’t wish it on any child. It’s exhausting for them all the appointments as it is for us (I feel selfish with that part). I have a part of me that wishes they were “normal” so they have a better life after already facing adversity at school and not understanding why their mummy is always poorly.

Professionally came across two suspected cases. The mother kept insisting that the child had certain illnesses, which resulted in many hospital admissions. In one admission the child had suspected T1 diabetes. It was discovered that the mother was tampering with urine samples (she was adding sugar) and the child was taken into care. This was after many suspected foul moves by her that medical staff suspected, but couldn't be 100% proved.
Another suspected case was a teen who had had a head injury in his country of birth (there was obvious scarring) then when they came to the UK they said he had epilepsy as a result, and produced medication to support this. He was in a wheelchair full time, allegedly incontinent, needed supervision 24/7 and had many side effects from his medication. He was admitted for one week to start a new drug trial, which had to be abandoned fairly quickly as he was displaying very atypical brain activity.
Long story short, when he was a teen his consultant bumped into him in a shopping centre and was very surprised that he was walking completely normally. This started an investigation. It was suspected that either parent had MBP, but it transpired they were motivated entirely by money, and his 'illnesses' and mobility aids etc were only for hospital visits, not everyday life, so it wasn't MBP but ficticious illnesses for fraudulent purposes. He didn't have epilepsy, before they came to UK they bought prescription medicine (for epilepsy) and came with this plan in order to get DLA, carers, mobility car and they had hoped a council house.

I once met someone who became insistent her child had an issue every time mine was diagnosed. Whatever my kid had, hers did too. Seizures, ASD, dyspraxia, ADHD… At least , until she went to the GP and they weren’t concerned. She was motivated by attention and DLA potential I think.

She swore blind the kid had ADHD but at a tiny size she was ramming Lucozade tablets down the kid, and said she couldn’t communicate. Yet I was left alone with the kid in a softplay and I mindlessly asked if she was ok. The kid said “errr yeah why?” and continued to chat away.
she then started telling everyone Juice Plus was curing her child’s ADHD symptoms… fuck sake .

Your brother is old enough to sort this out himself by now ( I know he may be brainwashed, but if he's walking around fine at home and then demanding a wheelchair when he is out?) Is it a financial thing ( a carers or disability pension). The fiancee should run a mile - could you post her a letter?

I suspect my sister in law has this and it's deeply affected her 3 dc who are all now adults but remain at home working minimal hours (think 12 hours a week at the local shop) and completely infantilised..

SIL had a birth defect that required multiple operations throughout her childhood up to age 20 ish.. she married my brother quite young (25ish) and had 'problem pregnancies' .. constantly in and out of hospital but never any issues.. as the kids grew up they had all kinds of weird illnesses but we never saw anything other than normal kids..

The same with the magic walking /not walking . Even briefly managed to get a special adapted bungalow until proof of nhs diagnosis was produced not a private unregistered clinic.. (massive fallout with local authoritie who tbf should have done proper checks)

Other 2 children have. Autism, and extreme anxiety. Except they don't . No diagnosis as she doesn't trust nhs having refused to diagnose eldest . She just knows.

Kept getting hassled by school for illness absence - so she De registered and home schooled.. (only she didn't, they just stayed home 'being ill')

My sister and two brothers all believe it's an attempt to continue the attention gained in childhood. It's just so weird but the kids seem to go along with it as does her DH (my db) It's like the family are in their own little cult )

I second this. I know a family where the mother knew something was off but most people thought it was in her head. Last year two children were diagnosed (as young adults) with a genetic condition and now, the mother has been diagnosed too after years of feeling there was something there that wasn't being picked up.

There's nothing worse than not being taken seriously and having it all written off to having stuff 'in your head' when there is actually something going on.

Not quite the same but about 25 years ago I was on a placement at GOSH as a student nurse and met an American mother who had brought her daughter in for very specialised tests on her digestive system. (They lived in London, I think). This little girl had been to lots of hospitals for pain in her tummy which no-one could diagnose. GOSH is the last resort because they have/had some of the best GI specialists in the country.

Anyway the mother was paying for these tests as a private patient. The girl went through them all and nothing of any note came back. Her mother looked absolutely crestfallen. But when the consultant said there was definitely nothing anyone worldwide can do and that now he recommends psychological support did the mum get snippy. She said there must be a mistake. She said her daughter wasn't faking it. She said she'd ask her family back in America to find another specialist so they could fly back and get a diagnosis. The poor doctor said, basically, good luck with that, but there's nothing wrong with your daughter.

The little girl never complained of pain whilst I spent time with her. She was an anxious sort but otherwise developing as a growing child should. I dunno what was going on there, but I suspect there was some dysfunction of some kind.

This is exactly what I thought when I read the post. I definitely wonder if there is some financial motivation behind this.

The term "by proxy" refers to someone else being made ill to get sympathy or attention. There were serious cases of this about 30 or so years ago.
Woman accused of cruelty making her child ill.
This sounds like someone making themself ill or pretending to be disabled.

This could be the start of a long hard road if considering marrying someone this desperate. One wouldn't know what to believe in the future. Suppose there were children. . . . .

I’ve come across it once professionally.

the parents were both very intelligent people but had a lot of childhood trauma between them and psychological issues as adults.

Every time anyone got to the point of asking questions they made an official complaint about that professional (teachers, social workers, medical staff). They moved the children’s school and and eventually home schooled the ‘sick’ child.

It was horrible to see. The child is now a teenager and, from what I see/hear, is at home most of the time and is missing out on so much.

If your brother is old enough to be marrying why is this by proxy?

also, if he is not actually ill, it’s not Munchausens I believe - they are not making him ill, they are all just pretending he is

I don't find that she didn't complain of pain to you, someone she doesn't know well, unusual. The mother was paying for private tests. Not so likely she was doing that for fun. Poor woman was probably written off as dysfunctional when there was something going on, even if it was just anxiety on the part of the child. Sometimes these things can be the start of something, just not obvious yet but may develop and emerge in time. I hope the kid either got better or the cause was found.