Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

Pantaloons99
There's also a huge increase in this Functional Neurological Disorder diagnosis which is incredibly damaging and simply nonsense.

Being wrongly diagnosed with FND when it's something else, IS damaging as is any misdiagnosis, as it changes treatment. But FND very much exists, though much maligned and misunderstood.
I have a relative with it and have sat in on their appointments. It is very real, and absolutely no fault of the sufferer, or in any way in their control, and this is what any neurologist dealing with FND will tell their patient.

Part of the brain malfunctions and misinforms the nervous system, often connected to head injury and or infection. The person with it doesn't cause it.

For some people, there's a program of physical therapy and neurological retraining combined that has good results, but may have to be undertaken more than once. It doesn't work for everyone.

Exactly.

Until recently they only knew of a couple of antibodies that caused my condition. They have in just the last few years found several more antibodies. That's a lot of people who used to be told their tests were negative so it's all in their head ! (And still some doctors don't even run the newer tests and just tell people it's all in their head)

I know two teens with FND and they both live in extremely stressful situations. I think our bodies are marvellous and mysterious and try hard to protect us.

I am sure there are genuine cases but I doubt many are genuine. Most people with autoimmune conditions are living stressful lives. There's a genuine connection between autoimmune conditions and raising children with additional needs.

FND is the new fob off diagnosis that provides the perfect out for neurologists. It is seen as a problem of function so no more tests needed, no treatment needed. You feel gaslit by this diagnosis? oh that's just the FND.

I digress, this is a whole other thread of it's own 🤷‍♀️😆

Quite a few people in our support group were told by neurologists they had FND not myasthenia and when they discuss it with us it was clear none of the specialised blood tests had been run. I agree, I think it's often a lazy diagnosis by someone who should be pursuing further tests /getting a colleague to give a second opinion

(I don't meant the person with "FND" is faking it, very much the opposite, that they are being let down as more tests might revel and actual condition and with diagnosis comes more options for treatment/management)

I imagine there are some hideous real life cases and unless we are in it day to day we won't ever know.

I honestly don't know either way ref OP situation. I've posted to say I think whatever is going it isn't good for her. M or MBP is a definite possibility and I won't ever know. She may never know.

You're right, I couldn't give you statistics. I am so confident in my view on this though sadly- in the UK,on the NHS based on years of hospital visits and observing treatment of others. All the years on various groups and the number of people gaslit is astounding and shocking. I've seen multiple doctors and I'm still in shock regards systematic gaslighting. I never would have believed it had I not been involved in speaking with people subject to all this for years. I and many of us out there would share this view regards accuracy quite firmly. Points made regards this are simply to challenge conditioned beliefs that these professionals know best. They often do not.

We always digress on these threads as points are made, you're right on that ☺️Not always helpful for the poor OP.

I've known someone who had Munchausens and MBP. She went as far as being admitted to a hospice to "die", she ended up having her child removed and being made to leave the family home. She's still wandering around with a feeding tube in her nose, and has started using a wheelchair as I had the misfortune to see her one day. Her child underwent major life changing surgery, which thankfully has been reversed now. They have a wonderful father whose worked hard to give them a good life.

We'd known this person for years, as she got sicker and sicker and eventually things didn't add up, but you feel bad for suggesting that someone so "brave" is making it up. Now I take everything people say with a very large pinch of salt. She hurt so many people, many of whom had undergone similar surgery but for actual illness.

This is so sad 😞 I’m so glad they’ve got a really good dad!
Brother has had shaved head but that was a good few years ago and I don’t remember the full context of it (my memory has blocked some areas of childhood), so it would be unfair for me to speculate why. He would’ve been early teens so not a decision made himself.

I knew one person with diagnosed MBP - long time ago now. MBP isn't new as a diagnosis. She had a terrible background herself. She made her child ill with salt, but it didn't actually seem to be a deliberate attempt to harm the child - she thought the child needed it.

She got intensive inpatient psychotherapeutic treatment and the last I heard, many years ago, she had gained insight into herself and was doing far better.

@Pantaloons99 totally agree with your post, I have EDS and so does Dd (POTS too). Dd has some serious gastro problems going on, can’t eat, feels sick, is sick, weighs 45kg (she’s an adult). I’ve been with her to the gp and raised the questions of gastroparesis and the GP (one of the partners) looked confused, gave the impression she knew nothing about it and said it must be reflux. 🤷‍♀️. Prescribed her ondansetron. Which she doesn’t need, but tried….no help whatsoever. Thankfully the acute phase seems to come and go on its own. I mean it’s never great but at times she does manage to eat small amounts

Oh gosh 🥺 she didn’t even mean to harm her child 😔

I’m glad she had help for her childhood problems etc
I hope they realised she thought she was helping her child too 😞

The people involved did realise that, yes. They supported her but also challenged her hard. It made her examine herself, in depth. She really did love her child and kept on with the treatment with determination so that she could keep her child - it was a last ditch effort, or she would have lost them.

I think the success of the treatment was because of the sort of person she was and her intense motivation. She had the will to engage with treatment.

My heart goes out to you @Namechangeone To be hoping for your mother's love while facing so many challenges, and never to receive it, is heartbreaking. She has some profound issues doesn't she, which aren't your doing or problem .. except that the consequences of them cascade down to and affect you :(

Up till not massively long ago lupus was considered an ill was of the mind and you’d be sent to a mental hospital!

Lupus was considered a mental illness because it often causes depression, anxiety and emotional imbalance.
It was over 70 years ago asthma was considered psychosomatic. Medical knowledge has advanced enormously since then.

And yet still not far enough. So many get people get told their symptoms are psychological only to much later, eventually, discover there was a physical cause (thattillyrose on Instagram describes doctors implying her spasms and swelling were psychological even when physically witnessing them happen, just because they couldn't spot the cause... Eventually a German specialist did scans that revealed they had a physical cause, vascular compressions)

I would to contest @budlea64 post.

"I get they're angry that they haven't been believed but they obviously haven't encountered real cases of MBP.
The OPs original Q was has anyone experience of it, and as sorry as I am for people with real physical illnesses and pain, I feel their anger is seeping through this thread and some are trying to discredit the OP. "

"real cases of MBP"?

That's my whole point EXACTLY. To a Tee. MBP is really incredibly rare. And really is a severe MH issue, almost bi-polar +, plus so narcissistic that their entitled self obsession knows no bounds, no empathy or compassion for the person whose health and life they are affecting. In the seeking their own self validation.

How many of those cases do you really think there are, each year, uk?

And yet we have, even on the thread, people accused of it, or the now fii. 99%+ of the mothers with ASD children, who are accused of having it, don't.

That because we, most of us, give total respect to the seriousness, severity, and rarity of MBP. And feel that the original condition isn't being given its true respect , because it's been belittled into false allegations of fii.

You can see that, surely?

And very very few MN'ers will have ANY experience of true MBP. Those that do, will be for example, niche, incredibly trained psychiatrists, who have the patient transfered to them. Or incredibly experienced HCP's, or school leads, or sw'ers, most of which would know little about it, thus would need to refer it on.

That in itself narrows down quite a lot of MN response public to few.

Excellent post

I'm with you!

I posted wanting to see had anyone experienced anything similar to what I have, anonymously, on a forum of a vast majority of professions.

Instead I’ve had a majority of posters trying to discredit myself & my personal experiences.

I have mentioned many times I’m supportive of my brother regardless. Him & my mother have both been offered psychiatric help many times.

Ive also mentioned I’m currently newly diagnosed lymphoma. I have autoimmune conditions, one which took 10 years to diagnose. So I get the “not being believed”.
Also a parent to a child with ASD.

Thank you to those with helpful responses. I’ve learnt a lot too.

Unfortunately I can’t see myself posting about something so personal again or opening up.

Please don't take it that way OP. Mn is here to help you, and support you.

It's just this issue, because it is such a rare, and misdiagnosed thing, is contentious.

But this thread has been informative. And even more support and direction can hopefully be offered to you, whilst the posts so far have already been sympathetic to your situation.

I really don't think it's aimed at you OP. You may be right and not one of us here knows for sure ref your situation. I know for me, and others posting, it's really aimed at all the ' oh yes I know an MBP case'. It isn't to discredit, it's to try raise awareness to the fact alot people are wrongly accused. And I'm not thinking about your brother.

It has taken your thread off on a tangent- which isn't helpful for you. I can see how you feel discredited. I really believe no one sharing their experience is aiming any vitriol at you. You have alot to deal with and I hope you get some support from loved ones even if your parents and brother aren't much cop. ♥️

I have re-read every single one of OP's posts. I see very little 'by proxy'. Eg classic MBP = mother wanting attention so feeds dc loads of salt, so has to take child to hospital all the time, so mother gets the attention she craves. What I see is a self indulgent, narcissistic brother, hypochondriac, and parents and wife that go along with it. That is not really MBP.

This is more like a complicated toxic family dynamic, that would better suited in 'I took you to stately homes' section of mn. Op needs help and support dealing with her brother, and also the rest of the family!

But stretching it to MBP, I'm afraid I can't quite agree to.