Wtf is going on with the nhs, is this the new normal?

[letdownchristmas]

I was in A+E with a relative yesterday with a suspected pulmonary embolism (has a history of this ) although luckily turned out to be all clear. We got there by ambulance at 3pm yesterday and was on a trolley in the corridor until 9pm. There were 15 people in the corridor on trollies with ambulance crews waiting to be handed over. All I could think was how the fuck are there any ambulance crews left on the road when they are all waiting in here to hand patients over. I was told that that this is a fairly normal day now. On the electronic board I could see that there was a 42 hour wait for an inpatient bed and only 56% of people met the four hour target. A 7 hour wait to be seen for walk ins. It honestly frightened me as to how the nhs is going to survive another winter.

@Sunnnybunny72

Oh, I absolutely hear you.

I left teaching a year ago because of pressures and stress and I can well imagine GPs are in a similar situation.

I have a massive amount of sympathy for them.

And I hope that the nhs can be improved because I know it can be better.

I "just" had an ear infection.

And my GP triaged it as not urgent.

The problem was, that my other medical conditions made it urgent and although they are in my record they don't really understand about those because they've never met me and I'm always told to do an e-consult.

I'm physically disabled with additional mental health problems due to chronic pain conditions and infections hit me very hard and make me very ill very fast.

But there was no way for me to challenge that decision or even see anyone else (I would have seen a pharmacist if my pharmacy treated adults but they also refused) without going to walk-in.

So I can see where the demand for walk in comes from.

(GP phoned to apologise the next day and said take IB and para and I said I take codeine and naproxen on a regular basis for chronic pain so I don't think that'll help).

It’s time we looked at other heathcare systems in Europe not the US as so often mentioned

but no we shall keep flogging a dead horse because the NHS was once a long long time ago our pride and joy a fantastic service that was mainly funded through tax

those days have long gone healthcare has change drastically cuts and very high interest loans and the bad management has ruined the nhs

Not a long time ago. In 2010 the NHS was judged internationally to be the most efficient healthcare system in the world.
It took 14 years for the Tories to destroy it.

Quite. This ‘well whataboutWales” is a Tory attack line. Not buying it. The NHS and all public services were in a considerably better state prior to repeated austerity budgets and Brexit.

The one thing I can add is that in my local area our A&E isn't even NHS anymore, it's been funded out to a private company! Tory government and classic privatisation of the country's assets. What we need to do is renationalise the NHS as a priority

The report that the NHS was what the most cost effective service

you do know huge amounts of NHS funding is used to pay off loans that propped up the nhs

I had ds in 2007 it was pretty bad I worked in the NHS early 2000’s (and back form 2015) poor management was being cited then

yes it has certainly got a lot worse under the Tories but it’s hasn’t been this great service for years the only thing great about the NHS is that it is free at point of service some treatments are still very good but all should be

Anyone who was an adult the last time the Tories were in for a long time know this is what happens. We had exactly the same press stories back then. Ambulances lined outside hospitals, trolleys in hospital corridors, claims the NHS had to be changed to a private insurance system as it could not cope. Then Labour got in and after a few years, oh look the NHS can cope after all. 4 hour waiting times in A and E largely met, even though people then still turned up for spurious reasons, and getting a hospital bed was not like winning the lottery.
The issue is the Tories. And they do this deliberately because they want the public to accept private insurance systems that they will make a lot of money for.

As for the whole idea that private firms run things more efficiently, that is exactly what they said before they privatised the rail companies and the water companies - and look how well that has worked out!

Some of the ageism on here is awful. Not all elderly people are frail and many are contributing. My DH has been a taxpayer for 61 years.

The NHS was an amazing organisation when it started. I remember my gran telling me that she cried because it meant her daughter - my mum - would be able to give birth in a hospital. It was never set up to do the breadth of things it does today and that's part of the problem.

It wasn't perfect under Labour and they have a hard task ahead of them. My aunt died in hospital during Tony Blair's time simply due to neglect. And another close relative died in a ward because it was closed because it was riddled with MRSA.

I am not convinced things will be any better under a different government.

March is a classic time of year to die for the elderly.

7 years ago my dad was was in an ambulance waiting for hours and hours

@HRTQueen The NHS was judged to be the most efficient healthcare system in 2010. Not the best in outcomes as we spend less on healthcare than many other countries. But the most efficient.

Countries that have private insurance require staff to sell and administer insurance policies, to process claims, and deal with disputes. In the US about one tenth of staff working in healthcare just deal with insurance policies. It is a vastly inefficient way of providing healthcare.

If we continued providing the same level of poor NHS service as we currently do and moved it to a private insurance model, it would automatically cost between 5 and 10% more annually to deliver.

Judged by whom and what age cost comparison.
Weeing as we are dying of cancers etc and can't get help I'm sure the majorly would rather pay more.

The Commonwealth Fund report in 2010 looked at five areas of performance - quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and healthy lives. And judged UK to be most efficient.

In 2011, the NHS is one of the most cost-effective health systems in the developed world, according to a study (pdf) published in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
The "surprising" findings show the NHS saving more lives for each pound spent as a proportion of national wealth than any other country apart from Ireland over 25 years. Among the 17 countries considered, the United States healthcare system was among the least efficient and effective.

The Tories have destroyed this. Just as they destroyed our water systems by privatising them, leading to raw sewage routinely being dumped into our seas and beaches. This is what the Tories do.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/fact-or-fiction-the-welsh-nhs-performs-poorly-compared-to-the-english-nhs

There are actual concerns which frankly living in wales I'm bloody sick get ignored or dismissed by Labour activists on here as Tory attacks - dismissing problems means they won't get addressed.

It is hard to compare though - but I don't find many saying Welsh NHS is actually doing great but then I don't think SNP run NHS up in Scotland is either.

Not sure there is a good answer anywhere but think current UK Tory government isn't even looking.

I do not know enough about Wales to pretend to know whose fault it is that Welsh healthcare is poor.
I just know that the NHS was in much better shape during a Labour government, and the Conservative governments before Labour destroyed the NHS. Back when the Tories were last in power, the NHS ended up looking like it does now.
The Tories want to sell off the NHS like they have already done with the water companies and the rail companies. More money for them and their mates. It would be like the PPE scandal all over again. And we would all pay the price.

By what one report

this is always mentioned and yet that was not what people were experiencing

labour gave huge financial support to the nhs but the management for this wasn’t given enough long term planning

you will no doubt still find how cost efficient the nhs is in some areas

Labour won’t save the nhs they will just plaster over the cracks if Labour really wanted a better service for the people of this country they would look outside the NHS to see what can be done

we are far too sentimental over the NHS we can still have a very good healthcare system it will not happen over night

peoples attitudes are changing free at the point of service for all just isn’t suitable for our society anymore it’s unsustainable

@HRTQueen One report and a separate study.
I know your message. I heard the same before water companies and railways were privatised.
It was all - the state can not afford to invest in the improvements needed for a modern water system. Privatise it and private investors will pay for improvements to water infrastructure.
The reality? It was privatised, shareholders and Directors took profits out, there was no real investment and sewage now is routinely discharged into seas and beaches.

Voting Labour isn’t going to be the answer to the UKs crumbling NHS. Welsh Labour has just paid out over £30m for useless 20mph signs throughout the country. It’s an absolute disaster! They will probably be spending another £30m to put the 30mph signs back very soon.

They are now putting another 36 parasites into the Senedd - at great cost to the taxpayer. Plus they are paying £b’s to extend the Senedd building to accommodate these extra 36 parasites.

Oh and they’ve just awarded themselves a 3% rise to their already obscene wages.

All while nobody can get to see a GP or NHS dentist. Paramedics can’t do their jobs because they have to spend hours at hospitals because they have patients on their stretchers with no beds at the hospitals. If anyone needs to be seen as an emergency because they are having a heart attack or a choking, it’s tough luck really! We have a shortage of doctors and our nurses are burnt out.

And Starmer has said if he yes into power he will be following the Welsh model. Good luck with that. It ain’t pretty.

@PurplePumkin There are 20 mph signs all over England as well. I do not know how much they cost, but it is not unique to Wales. And I live in a Conservative run area. 20mph signs at the bottom of my street and many other streets.

Yes Tories are generally pro privitisation but it is important people remember and understand the first privitisation of the NHS was by Tony Blair to Virgin. It's an all party issue. The needs of an ageing population, living with more chronic disease for longer, and the cost of new, effective but exorbitantly costly drugs & diagnostics need to be openly discussed.

You have 20mph speed limit on your A roads? I don’t think so!

A factual post indeed. It was like this 35 years ago.

I just know that the NHS was in much better shape during a Labour government, and the Conservative governments before Labour destroyed the NHS. Back when the Tories were last in power, the NHS ended up looking like it does now.

Our demographics are different now - we have more old people who on average have more medical conditions to manage and post covid more sick people than previously - and fewer and fewer tax payers.

This kind of thinking will be the bane of next labour government and lead to bitter disillusionment when they can't deliver a return to 90s economic and demographics.

it’s not that simple Noisy

The NHS is so much more complex to manage the water systems

you don’t have to have shareholder influenced decisions We can look to France, Germany, The Netherlands all far better healthcare services

The biggest increase in the percentage of A&E attendances waiting longer than four hours was seen in England, where the percentage of attendances waiting longer than four hours in A&E increased from 8.1% in January 2013, to 42.4% in September 2023.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/accidentandemergencywaittimesacrosstheuk/2024-02-28#changes-in-accident-and-emergency-waiting-times

2010 was not that long ago when the NHS was independently judged to be the most efficient healthcare system.
Yes it is a complex system.