Wtf is going on with the nhs, is this the new normal?

[letdownchristmas]

I was in A+E with a relative yesterday with a suspected pulmonary embolism (has a history of this ) although luckily turned out to be all clear. We got there by ambulance at 3pm yesterday and was on a trolley in the corridor until 9pm. There were 15 people in the corridor on trollies with ambulance crews waiting to be handed over. All I could think was how the fuck are there any ambulance crews left on the road when they are all waiting in here to hand patients over. I was told that that this is a fairly normal day now. On the electronic board I could see that there was a 42 hour wait for an inpatient bed and only 56% of people met the four hour target. A 7 hour wait to be seen for walk ins. It honestly frightened me as to how the nhs is going to survive another winter.

100% this. We've absolutely been blinded into thinking the only alternative is an American style health care system which puts the fear of god into people.

I visited A+E quite a few times over winter 2022/23 as I worked in a care home at the time. I don't remember it being this bad then and I never waited with a patient in a corridor. It's worrying that the weather is actually mild at the moment and we aren't in winter anymore really.

I agree. The elderly people now have benefited from the success of the Nhs vaccination programme (which is amazing) and from good medical care but now we have an aging population with complex medical issues.

Chris Witty has made comments about elderly people being kept alive with intense medical intervention even if it’s against their best interests. Having had a parent recently go through this I’m interested to see what happens next with this area and with assisted dying.

People have to go to A&E because they can't see the doctor. My doctors still aren't seeing patients face to face and we have to ring for a phone appointment at eight.

Then hospitals are clogged up as they have nowhere to send patients of any kind.

I agree the GP appointments issue is a huge one. For instance, where I live the GP switched to phone only appointments and come in if necessary during covid.
I have had 2 issues in the last 18 months that required an appointment.
A chest infection
An issue with one of my joints
For both, I had to have the phone appointment then another in person one made. That's 4 appointments when I only needed 2. When you consider how many times this must be happening no wonder there aren't ever any appointments. So then people go the hospital and the walk in for things they could go the GP for.

Me and my mum were discussing this last night and that years ago elderly relative would have died from the massive PE two years ago just as her own mother and brother died from the same thing. We are keeping people alive well beyond their natural lifespan, I'm not saying this is a bad thing but it comes with its own set of issues.

Lots of waisted money in the NHS.
But also the way the public use it and what they expect has changed.
Currently massive mental health issues but this has taken money ( and staff) away from other areas.
Everyone wants counselling suddenly or support from services like CAMHS.
Pregnancy has become more complex - older mothers, more IVF/ donor pregnancys and the consequences being more c section's.
111 send ambulances to anyone who describes a chest infection in a child rather than just saying take them yourself.
We now have people wanting to change sex and demanding artificial hormones and surgery to do this. Then have ongoing health needs as a result.
We have a rise in diagnosis of autism and ADHD and an increase in demand for assessment and support within the early years.
Obesity has increased.
We now keep people alive for longer in poor health. Complex needs have increased massively over the years.
Basically society changed and demands changed.
The NHS really can't cope currently.

Last year DS had an ear infection that hadn't cleared up after first course of antibiotics.

After 3 days of calling the surgery for an appointment and being in a barely moving queue for an hour, I took the morning off work and went to a nearby walk-in centre. (About 10 miles away) We had a 2 min apt and got a prescription for some different antibiotics after an hour wait.

Obviously nowhere near as bad as OP situation in terms of severity or time but indicative that the system is struggling for even very minor things.

Having said this, a colleague with health anxiety gets a Dr's appointment every week without anywhere near as much problem so I think it varies by area.

Pulling down the rehab hospitals to get money for building land was a massive mistake.

Chris Witty has made comments about elderly people being kept alive with intense medical intervention even if it’s against their best interests

And to be brutally honest that is happening at the other end too with children who would have not survived now living putting huge pressure on the education system.

ONS seems to disagree with you.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/bulletins/nationalpopulationprojections/2020basedinterim#:~:text=3.-,UK%20population,million%20(6.9%25%20increase).

Very normal. A&e is horrendous locally. 48-72 hour waits at the weekend aren’t uncommon.

I took Dd once a few days after multiple confirmed pulmonary embolisms and she was screaming with chest pain (so high risk for a heart attack), told the nurse on the front desk about her medical history and that I was worried she was about to have a cardiac arrest and we still had to sit for 30 mins before being triaged.

I do get of there’s no staff to see her then there’s no staff to see her but ten years ago someone with that medical history and severe chest pain I don’t think would have been left 30 mins before being triaged.

I have had three on the day of calling GP appointments in the last two months. I do have a condition so maybe that why but chatting to postmistress yesterday she said no problem either. We have a health centre that has nurse practitioners. I have seen them each time, Honestly they are brilliant and the three lots of meds they gave me they went in to some detail of why those ones have been prescribed.

There is a poster in my surgery outlining how many appointments have been missed in the last month, it was close to 300. Maybe 10% had a valid reason a real emergency why they didn’t attend but that’s just not on is it.

I did actually work in the NHS for 6years in a clinical role when I was young which was the late 1980’s It had its issues back then so I left. Worked for a council but ended up in higher education. It is an awful truth that whilst many devoted amazing people work within the public sector many incredibly incompetent people work within it that would be sacked within the private sector.

This 100%, I've also worked in the NHS for many years. I've seen ever growing divisional teams and dwindling front line staff.
The public need to be asking their local NHS for details around the number of managers and their pay and why this has increased massively over the last 10 years whilst actual nurses and doctor numbers have reduced.
The NHS is run very similar to the government unfortunately lots of people sat at the top on lots of money for no good reason.

A big reason is people not being able to secure GP appointments.

Or people who don't have a GP and go to A&E for everything. Lower back pain, earache, high blood pressure, colds.

It is utterly horrifying. My teen DD has metastic cancer her survival rate has gone from 70% to 15 to 30% as her GP wouldnt initally see her in person, months waits for ultra sound and MRI as NICE guidelines for 48hr referral weren't followed.

All of the parents on the Teen Cancer have a similar story.

We go to out of hours go to A and E if she has a temperature - it is a war zone. She had to wait 6 hours for a bed which looks good on here. But there was no room to isolate her so with no immune system sat in a room full of vomiting people. Toilets coved in vomit and poo. She became seriously ill and now has a hospital acquired infection.

She has had Chemo cycles delayed due to lack of beds. The ward struggles for staff cover. The ward staff and oncology team are great.
Note to the 'we are OK we can go private crowd' her oncologist doesn't do private work and her Chemo regime isn't done privately in the UK.

We live in a Tory stronghold, Labour aren't even putting up a candidate. They should put my daughter up as their candidate (she loves politics). Even if she doesnt win it will wipe the smug smile off the the local MP and make for some very uncomfortable interviews.

Yes, I worked for the nhs for many, many years and still do some bank shifts as a midwife. Midwifery got more funds allocated following the Ockenden report but the extra money has all been spent on specialist midwives.

So whereas in the past the trust had one head of midwifery, less than 5 specialists, 2 matrons and 2 professional development midwives. There is now a director of midwives, 2x heads of midwifery, 2 consultant midwives, about 10 specialist roles, 8 people in the clinical education team, 4 matrons. No uplift of staff on the wards though 🤷‍♀️. Some of this though is due to national directive though rather than local decisions……nationally saying you have to have X role.

Please can you highlight the bit where is says the population has been increasing by a million every year because I can’t find it.

I have been waiting since September for breast cancer surgery. I've now gotten appointment for the end of April.

@Decoart thats a sobering read, I’m sorry your DD’s care has been so badly affected. I did read something in the paper yesterday from a senior oncologist saying how bad things are. He says he makes appointments so far away for patients (as there’s nothing available sooner) and he knows the person will be dead before the appointment. He was very much saying the delays in treatment is causing deaths.

i know someone who’s father has suspected Parkinson’s and they’ve been told it will be between 1-2 years for the appointment to confirm diagnosis. He can’t have any treatment until diagnosis is confirmed and treatment could possibly slow down the disease.

Can you highlight in your sources where the population has been decreasing?

Also, the chart from ONS does not include illegal immigration and semi-legal immigration, where people arrive on a tourist visa, or as visitors for a EU country and overstay. Some register with a GP, even though they are not entitles, others don't and use A&E.

Claiming the population has been decreasing is a bit bizarre.

It’s heartbreaking that things are so bad.

I am angry, I had to wait over two years to be seen for something treatable.

what? Where are you getting that from? A million a year? Nonsense! Nothing like!

I’ve worked in head offices in London in NHS. My god the money that’s wasted on staff (managers) is unreal though some of the work done is good.

I was in hospital recently for scans, MRI and an operation, whilst I couldn’t fault the general care there seemed to be a lot of small, silly mistakes, including twice where to put in a drip and take blood. There was a larger mistake too but this was by someone doing the scan. I’m never in hospital so was a bit shocked at the deterioration.