Are some children just born horrible?

[Courteneycrocs]

Hear me out. I know there are environmental reason, poor upbringing for example. Learnt and even taught poor behaviour being another. Attention seeking being a common cause too.
But aside from those reasons causing poor behaviour/bullies, have you come across children who are just plain horrible for no reason and with no cause?
As there are adults who are just generally nasty whether at work, relatives, acquaintances and the likes, everyone is capable of being horrible and it isn’t age dependent, sometimes it’s a choice.
If you ever mention a child who is known for poor behaviour or attitude, they’re often labelled SEN or ‘they can’t help it, it’s xyz’. Sometimes noted as the ‘naughty child’ if no excuses are made. But the general gist is that there are always excuses. The parents are always blamed even if they have done their best. No one ever stops and thinks, actually that child is just horrible.
If a 10 year old child broke your baby’s toy, damaged something expensive in your home and laughed, stole something from a shop, told lies to hurt someone, called someone names, disrespects rules and adults and never uses manners would you consider them a horrible child or just raised poorly? Would your answer be based on assumptions from seeing the parents or only if you know how they’re being raised?
If the same child was 5 years old would your answer be the same?

(No offence meant to anyone who may not like this post, it isn’t aimed at anyone or to start a heated debate, posting out of genuine curiosity after a conversation I had with a teacher friend).

I have four dc and they are all completely different personalities (thankfully they are all lovely) but we’ve had different struggles with all of them despite them having the exact same care and attention (ie one was a bit of a terror in the nursery years, one could be a bloody pain during the teenage years and one has suspected autism and is very unsociable.)

So I definitely think it’s largely down to individual personality however upbringing has a huge impact obviously. Most “horrible” kids come from horrible homes IMO or there has been something lacking in the formative years. Overindulgence and never having to face consequences can also cause huge problems.

Unfortunately, I think a child can be unpleasant. I work in a school so have met hundreds of children but can think of one in particular. Had a sibling and lovely parents but the child was ghastly.

Some children are definitely born sweet-natured and easygoing and obedient, while others take a lot more effort. If parents don't make the effort with such a child, and ignore or encourage the behaviour, the child may well end up badly behaved and horrible. A tiny minority might have sociopathic traits but not many.

However, I think it's rare you do see the whole story of their background and parenting, and you don't know if they will turn out ok as adults. Plenty of adults own up to having been bullies and these are decent people now.

I've been wondering this. Is it that some of these children might be displaying early signs of a future anti social personality disorder?
My DD is dealing with a girl age 5 who is just so cruel, every opportunity to tear her down is taken. One-upmanship, tears if my dd gets a hug from a friend or gets rewarded in class for reading. Saying nasty things everyday and speaking in a mean voice

I am one of six children, one sister well even from her being small something felt off to me. She used to set fire to insects from a young age and there were many other incidences of really manipulative horrific behaviour. She was the favourite child actually. After our Mother died we all cut her off. She had no moral compass and zero empathy. She was never diagnosed with anything.

There is always a reason

There we 5 of us, and 4 of turned out to what can only be described as decent, lawful and poilte people that have done well in life nd are pretty respectable thoroguth left but one went slightly off the rails when 11 and it took the family loads of hard work to bring them back in by the time they were 19.

One of our children years ago managed a nursery and if you though a few of the toddlers were OTT, you should have seen the parent's behaviour

There children could be different in behaviour not matter what the parents and siblings did as their friends may bring the worse out of them and often parents will tell of kids more that don't behave and the kids think they are being picked on and it can become a vicious circle.

So at times you could bring up kids really well but for whatever reason, they do not behave as most people expect children to behave. Its very complexed and children like marriage can be hard work.

No there isn't.

Some of them just come out bad.

My brother was born just wrong. Perfectly healthy pregnancy, perfectly stable calm and loving family.

He just doesn’t feel like other people. He clinically sets out to cause misery and upset in other people. That seems to be the only time he feels emotion- he feeds off their upset. It doesn’t seem to make him happy- just gives him this weird satisfaction. We are 16 months apart and he has been like always. Most of my childhood was like living with the Eye of Sauron fixed on me.

If I didn’t know him, I absolutely would have believed that nurture overcomes all. But it does not.

Psychopaths are born. So yes.

Yes.

Obviously children are like adults and they choose to obey society rules or not

Some kids and adults are defiant and do the opposite to instructions. That makes their life and parents very hard.
They can be like thos from when they can move and understand.
Dc1 literally continued whatever told no about. Had to physically redirect.
Would defiantly wee places. Hid things to upset people.

Other kids start off ok and get worse while at school. They start ignoring autority figures when they did pay attention before. This seemed to happen around y5.

Adhd obviously causes a lot of impulsive behaviour.

Psychological traits are both internal and external factors and it’s a complex interplay. Someone may be born with a propensity for unpleasant traits; but how strongly that will manifest itself may be substantially impacted by environmental factors as they are growing up. Albeit Not always.

Yes

Yes, there is always a reason.

Saying a child 'comes out bad' is a medieval attitude. There is always an explanation - a child psychiatrist/psychologist/doctor will be able to explain what is going on for that child.

Yea, one reason is genetics. Definitely born that way . Psychopath .

One of my relatives has a child who is unbearable.

Yes definitely. I used to babysit one. Loving hippyish upper middle class family. Eldest child was off. Younger two normal kids. Was hideous mean child turned into a dreadful drug dealing teacher torturing teen. Parents did all they could really battled for him then the family quietly emigrated when he was 19 leaving him behind.

Yes largerock- even not to a severe degree some kids can just enjoy winding up or being mean.
This one kid says to whole club 'oh thats x hes the most hated boy in school!.
X hadnt even said anything.
If i had a scale that kid would be maybe 5. they are in fact very intelligent.

Yes there are in life unfortunately there are a, few 😕 kids/teens who can act like shits to other kids and people too,

Epigenetics is an interesting branch of biology. The way in which your DNA is wrapped, the tags that accumulate to promote or inhibit protein synthesis. The exposure to the foetus in the uterus to stresses such a drugs alcohol, domestic violence and stress can all impact a foetus before birth.

Yes, and hugely manipulative.
Not to be underestimated due to age, I've only came across one, a girl, but she was genuinely cruel, and has now grown to be an equally cruel, cunning adult.

Oh yes, some children can be horrible. I find myself primarily blaming the parents for their failure to supervise them and teach them how to behave properly. Some of it will be nature, but I think that nurture plays a more significant role.

I've met one baby who was absolutely horrible. He seemed permanently furious and was extremely aggressive (I know this shouldn't be possible) from a couple of weeks old. No allergies, hidden pain conditions, nothing that could be found anyway. I lost touch with them when he was about 2½ and still awful. His parents, who were lovely and very exhausted, did see the irony in the name they'd chosen: he was called Damien 😂

I do hope they all muddled through okay and Damien is now an even-tempered man who gives love as he receives it. I've known a lot of kids and usually prefer the 'difficult' ones, as they're interesting. But he was something else.

We are a product of our childhood experiences. No one is born inherently bad.