Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Thread gallery
5
InWalksBarberalla · 22/03/2024 23:15

brytersky · 22/03/2024 20:39

I feel for the victims and their families, but my first thought when I hear something like this is, please let it be a wider attack on the regime and let it come to an end.

As others have since noted Isis have now claimed responsibility- but on the regime change aspect - I don't really get this hope. The people most likely to be able to successfully take down Putin will be even worse than he is. You can't think that if someone was actually attempting regime change by killing innocent Russian civilians that they would somehow be a compassionate, reasonable leader once in charge? No they'd be an even more ruthless, power hungry sociopath.

OP posts:
Ursulla · 23/03/2024 00:05

Yes however bad Putin is his enemies are worse. That's how come he is in power and how come he was man of the day across the west for a long time. Before him was a drunk who couldn't control the mafia, after him it's actual barbarians.

Blueballoons1 · 23/03/2024 00:14

I feel very sorry for the Russian people. I have Russian work colleagues & also good friends through my children. They are such intelligent, vastly educated, stoic, insightful, creative, artistic & brutally honest beings one wonders how the hell the regime exists & future regiemes may be even worse again. How does it keep happening? I love my Russian colleagues & mum friends to bits😊

OP posts:
JamSandle · 23/03/2024 00:19

Islamic State have claimed responsibility.

MariaLuna · 23/03/2024 00:35

Scary times.....

Same shit, different day.

I grew up in NI during the Troubles.

I don't get why IS would target Russia... but wtf do I know?

Ursulla · 23/03/2024 01:05

@Blueballoons1 well that's the conundrum isn't it. Russians are fab people, but they have terrible leaders, have never experienced democracy etc. Do we all get the leaders we deserve? Do UK citizens deserve Brexit, de Pfeffel, Sunak? Truss??!

@MariaLuna IS were really active in the Caucasus, a lot of them went over to Syria but some stayed. I guess these last few years Russia's been stretched across various fronts it thought would be less work than they've proved to be - kind of like the Nazis were when Russia took them down - Azerbaijan, Ukraine all far more problematic than predicted - so looks like it is losing its grip on IS in the Caucasus.

Northernsouloldies · 23/03/2024 01:16

Just shows Isis haven't lost the ability to pull off a statement atrocity.what a fucked up world we live in.

dapsnotplimsolls · 23/03/2024 02:02

Blueballoons1 · 22/03/2024 23:15

Am I wrong in thinking that ISIS wouldn't attack during their holy period of Ramadan or am I way off the mark?

That wouldn't bother them.

Maireas · 23/03/2024 06:18

This morning the death toll is "at least" 60.
A concert hall attack is a soft target, isn't it?
I'm guessing they're in support of those Islamic break away groups.

EsmaCannonball · 23/03/2024 09:14

Want the bad news? Sergei Markov, an ally of Putin, has just appeared on the BBC claiming that Ukraine is behind the attack and the order was given by Zelenskyy. I wonder if the reason that the UK and US have been so public about warning of terrorist attacks in Russia in recent weeks is that they were anticipating the Russian regime would blame anything that happened on the Ukrainians?

Maireas · 23/03/2024 09:21

Interesting development, @EsmaCannonball .
Sadly predictable, and bad news as you say.

Lonelycrab · 23/03/2024 09:33

Want the bad news? Sergei Markov, an ally of Putin, has just appeared on the BBC claiming that Ukraine is behind the attack and the order was given by Zelenskyy

Oh no😕

Can only hope that’s his own personal take on it and not the official line. Pretty obvious where that’ll lead if they claim Ukraine is behind it.

But nothing as yet about this on either the bbc or Graun live feed, not much on twitter either.

viques · 23/03/2024 09:41

Current death toll at 93, expected to rise. Ukraine has denied responsibility, but if that will be believed remains to be seen. Apparently they have people they say were responsible in custody . Looking at the videos I am amazed more people weren’t killed, huge venue, packed out and at least four shooters and apparently volatile liquids used to start fires. My mind despairs at the mindset of people who plan these atrocities.

Maireas · 23/03/2024 09:47

Yes, the fire, people being shot running away, it's a vision of hell. Sadly I think that the death toll will rise above 93.

EsmaCannonball · 23/03/2024 09:47

I've looked up the Sergei Markov guy and he does have rather the history of making wild claims and threats. However, when it comes to Putin and his cronies, what seems like a wild accusation to us is most often a valid strategy to them. Ukraine would have nothing to gain and everything to lose by carrying out this kind of attack.

hangingonfordearlife1 · 23/03/2024 10:09

TheCatOnMorrisseysHead · 22/03/2024 20:55

Crazy. At this point I wouldn't put it past Putin to be behind something like this to fuck up the narrative. Terrifying.

i wouldn't put it past uk or usa either

hangingonfordearlife1 · 23/03/2024 10:10

Blueballoons1 · 22/03/2024 22:09

@TheSnakeCharmer realistically this does not bode well for the Paris Olympics or the Euros if ISIS is back.. Who's even funding them?
Yes I agree completely they despise Western culture.. Why Russia? Why target Moscow?

they have never gone away

EsmaCannonball · 23/03/2024 10:30

Apparently the specific group that is claiming responsibility for this attack is ISIS-K, a branch of IS that covers parts of Central Asia. I remember reading about a year or so ago that many former ISIS/ISIL fighters had flooded into Afghanistan in the aftermath of America's departure and European security agencies were worried that some of them were entering Europe (specifically Sweden, Germany and France) under the guise of Afghan refugees.

Elleherd · 23/03/2024 10:32

hangingonfordearlife1 · 23/03/2024 10:10

they have never gone away

Correct.

Elleherd · 23/03/2024 10:35

Blueballoons1 · 22/03/2024 23:15

Am I wrong in thinking that ISIS wouldn't attack during their holy period of Ramadan or am I way off the mark?

Blueballoons1 ISIS-K & ISKP are both happy to bomb mosques, so it is unlikely that attacks during Ramadan would be an issue to them. ISIS have provided funding to ISIS-K as recognition following them pulling off previous attacks There are also many other groups with affiliations to IS. PIJ and Hamas are both specifically calling for Ramadan to be used for increased attacks.

In January ISIS-K successfully bombed the annual commemorative ceremony for Iran's general Soleimani (assassinated by the US) killing 84. Soleimani's (who was head of QUD) militias had fought IS for years. They used tactics of a second bomb, placed and timed to catch those fleeing the first.

ISIS-K are still fighting the Taliban. Russia accredited their first diplomat from (Taliban-led) Afghanistan in 2022. While nothing can be assumed as automatically true, Russia is naming individuals from Ingushetia, one of the Muslim-majority Caucasus republics. Russia's figures previously for known individuals who had fought with ISIS were 4500, with most from the Caucasus. Russia supports Hamas and Hezbollah, who in turn support PIJ. But PIJ have supporters in the Caucasus.

Both PIJ and Hamas leaders have called for an escalation of hostilities across the world during Ramadan.

I am not stating this is the motive for this terrorist attack, more trying to show who a handful of various organizations are and how complicated it gets and why Ramadam is not a safe period from Islamic terrorism.

DogandMog · 23/03/2024 10:50

As well as it being Ramadan, it’s also the holy period of Great Lent for the Russian people at the moment, so especially poignant and tragic for this atrocity to happen 🙏

Longma · 23/03/2024 10:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

viques · 23/03/2024 11:17

Elleherd · 23/03/2024 10:35

Blueballoons1 ISIS-K & ISKP are both happy to bomb mosques, so it is unlikely that attacks during Ramadan would be an issue to them. ISIS have provided funding to ISIS-K as recognition following them pulling off previous attacks There are also many other groups with affiliations to IS. PIJ and Hamas are both specifically calling for Ramadan to be used for increased attacks.

In January ISIS-K successfully bombed the annual commemorative ceremony for Iran's general Soleimani (assassinated by the US) killing 84. Soleimani's (who was head of QUD) militias had fought IS for years. They used tactics of a second bomb, placed and timed to catch those fleeing the first.

ISIS-K are still fighting the Taliban. Russia accredited their first diplomat from (Taliban-led) Afghanistan in 2022. While nothing can be assumed as automatically true, Russia is naming individuals from Ingushetia, one of the Muslim-majority Caucasus republics. Russia's figures previously for known individuals who had fought with ISIS were 4500, with most from the Caucasus. Russia supports Hamas and Hezbollah, who in turn support PIJ. But PIJ have supporters in the Caucasus.

Both PIJ and Hamas leaders have called for an escalation of hostilities across the world during Ramadan.

I am not stating this is the motive for this terrorist attack, more trying to show who a handful of various organizations are and how complicated it gets and why Ramadam is not a safe period from Islamic terrorism.

Excellent summing up of a very complicated situation. There is also the ongoing conflict within Russia’s own territories with predominantly Muslim areas like Chechnya.

Elleherd · 23/03/2024 13:06

viques · 23/03/2024 11:17

Excellent summing up of a very complicated situation. There is also the ongoing conflict within Russia’s own territories with predominantly Muslim areas like Chechnya.

Thank you It is only an attempt at some sort of snapshot of the complexities, as is this:
Yup to the internal conflicts, and a whole new generation who grew up with those who survived terrible times. Grozny in particular, which was declared the most destroyed city on Earth by the UN, and the surrounding areas during the 2nd Chechen war, which many consider to be mainly a cleanup operation of the success of the first.

Two and a half decades ago the luckless 40,000 odd trapped Grozny inhabitants, mainly poor, old, and women and children, surviving in basements, were warned that if they didn't get themselves out they would be 'considered terrorists and everyone not leaving the city by December the 11th would be destroyed as such.' The people still there were mainly those without resources, or too terrified to previously try to flee.
On December the 11th a supposed safe corridor was opened, that was then bombed and shelled. After that the ultimatum was withdrawn in the face of international outrage.

But amongst many other atrocities over the next few weeks, approx eight weeks later, Katyr-Yurt where many refugees from Grozny had fled, was without warning heavily bombed for two days causing approx 20,000 refugees to try to flee. The Russians then organized a large white flagged refugee convoy of busses. And shelled it.

In Novye Aldi which was cluster bombed the day before, surviving residents were made to emerge for 'inspection' by paramilitary police. Russian soldiers had actually warned residents the feared OMON were following up behind them.

Many residents were summarily executed with automatic rifle fire at close range. Some who hid in their cellars had hand grenades tossed in. They then looted, raped surviving women and girls, in some cases gang rape, and set homes on fire to cover their atrocities. While none of this stuff is unusual for civilians as part of war, that massacre was after the soldiers had searched for Chechen fighters, notably organized and to this day only one man was ever charged, and his case then suspended. (The day after the massacre a small group of Chechen fighters turned up, but the OMAN had moved on)

Some tried to seek justice through international courts. In 2009 3 particularly notable human rights activists, political journalists and lawyers involved, were abducted and murdered. Women who had children as a result of the rapes went into hiding.

There is so much more than this. I'm just trying to give an idea of what ordinary people went through and why it might politicize people. Memories are long, history is rarely forgotten by those who suffered it, or the next generation growing up with it as their history, and it is passed from generation to generation.

Swipe left for the next trending thread