Should we more honest about the impact of children in careers ?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-13184193/Lily-Allen-insists-choosing-motherhood-pop-stardom-love-children-ruined-career.html

Is Lily Allen being honest here and saying something that a lot of women (and possibly men) realise but don't openly admit to?

I think in a fundamental sense she has a point in that for women celebs and athletes having children if not logistically 'managed' can destroy a career. For women athletes the reality is for many having children is normally done at the still end of a career with the understanding at an elite level pregnancy and early years child reading can be difficult while meeting the extreme demands of competitive sport. You could argue Taylor Swift may or may not have had the career she had if she had given birth to a couple of children (possibly losing a little career momentum because of being out of the limelight for 2 or 3 years).

On the more mortal level having children can push you back on a career path as part time working may put you back relative to your peers and as children get older it becomes more difficult to move due to schooling and children friendship ties. Having children means there may be less opportunity to 'put in the extra mile to further you career by gaining a 'hard working' reputation.

Should we be more honest about this in society and admit even in 2024 there are sacrificed to be made having childen? Are these sacrifices something we can put down to a lifestyle choice of do we need to continue to press to remove any career disadvantage having children may bring?

After 've been read's pp here posted,
I have to say that, life is incredibly hard, especially for most women.

I agree OP, we are being sold a falsehood. My mother and grandmother were ambitious for me, constantly talking about how things were changing and my generation could have it all. They also talked about motherhood but they never actually thought about the practicalities of it. I think it was a class issue, they believed that by educating me I would be of a higher class and would be able to pay for full time help out of my graduate salary.

The reality was the complete opposite, I was broke and miserable for years and my career never really went anywhere although I worked really hard. I could have retrained in my early 30s but by then I knew I wanted a family and didn't want to risk the wait. After DS and about 4 years of nursery drop offs and 2 permanently stressed parents, we decided something had to give, DH was on the track to really lucrative career but it needed 100% commitment and occasionally irregular hours. So i gave up my job to be a SAHM and my DH was promoted shortly afterwards. We are very financially comfortable now and while DH has to the glory of being the one with the good job, i have benefitted as much. I am adamant he was promoted because I gave up work, I remind him of this if he ever gets egotistical about it. its funny though that the narrative has changed, when people hear I gave up work they assume I sacrificed a career, when in reality it was just a shitty low paid job. I suspect there is a bit of Lily Allen's story there, 'I could have been MD by now if it weren't for my kids', yeah right.

I feel like i let the feminists down and worry about my kids seeing me as a SAHM but on balance it has been a great situation for our family. I eventually retrained and do something PT that I love, but i admit it is very much a 'mum job' working around the school calendar. I feel sorry for my friends who are working FT as are their partners, they seem to all be resentful and exhausted. my friends who are SAHM are happier as are their kids and partners. I hate to admit it but its my experience. However an important element is the people I speak of chose to give up work and started their relationship and parenthood as equal partners with no power imbalance, and their partners know of their sacrifice and respect it.

It's always this way around isn't it, women mostly suffering, men to afar less degree in their career because of their children.
Never, ever the effect on both parents having a career on children.

We really need far more flexibility in work to accommodate for the children. What kind of society to do we want? USA... Very few holidays, mums back at work within weeks sitting on rubber rings?
John Oliver did a program on it and you would think it was from a backward country not the States.

The only way for everyone to benefit esp children is for flexible working and slack for parents

I think anybody that doesn't agree with this clearly is either a woman who hasn't had children, or a man.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong what sector was your original career in? I’m guessing at arts/museums/libraries or entertainment by the sound of the low pay and instability?

I had notions of a career in publishing when I first graduated, not realising how much these jobs relied on knowing the right people and needing to be subsidised by rich well connected parents. Then I did a librarianship diploma, working in a library for a while before having my children, after which the bottom dropped out of the employment market in that sector. I’ve been doing retail and admin ever since.

Very deliberately, and coldly rational, I had several terminations before I had my only child. At 43, when the climbing part of my career was done, and when I had helped make DH's business successful by being the breadwinner for several years, I was fortunate to conceive quickly and have an easy pregnancy, but it might not have happened at all. I don't think I would have been heartbroken either way. I really did not enjoy the loss of my career and it was a downer all through my 50s. I loved the intellectual cut and thrust of my work before.

Im a childless middle manager. I work in an all female org with a high proportion of women on reduced hours. We are all expected to do quite a lot.

It wasn't really a choice - I would say it took while to find stability (bought a home after a relationship ended) then we had covid. Probably too late now.

Being childless means no one to download to at the end of a day, no child to squeeze, so when there is a lack of empathy at work it feels double hard.

The flexible working rules in the UK are terrible. I lost two promotions because apparently my company couldn't find someone to share the roles with me (they didn't really try). There's no protection of your job/ pay if you apply for flexible working.

Of course a man stepped in and took on my roles full time (using everything I set up in the job) so I'm back to square one. Huge loss of income too at a time when I needed it most!

Lilly Allen's career was restricted by her being basically talentless, not by children.