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Thread 39 Sunak - Government by Gaslight

987 replies

DuncinToffee · 10/03/2024 10:53

previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5016708-thread-38-sunak-soooo-square-one-is-an-option-then?page=40&reply=133647875

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54
Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 09:30

Sorry is forcibly removed to Rwanda. I am sure it's a beautiful country and there are plenty of other great reasons to visit it.

BIossomtoes · 19/03/2024 09:32

I would be amazed if anyone ever goes to Rwanda.

So would I. I’m astonished that Sunak’s made something so problematic his hill to die on. Or maybe I’m not. He’s got to be the most politically inept politician ever.

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 09:41

@BIossomtoes well Blair committed as to War in Iraq on the basis of no evidence of weapons of mass destruction and Cameron called for a referendum on Brecit to call the bluff of the Eurosceptics then lost it. And Liz Truss ...He has competition.

However, I don't know who is advising him as he's chosen a bunch of fiendishly difficult hills to die on - reducing inflation (which will only work if people experience wage growth or prices dropping), reducing NHS waiting lists whilst fighting industrial action with every healthcare profession at once AND choosing to break international law to transfer a handful of migrants to a third country for an alleged deterrent effect that we don't know will work.

There's a narrative in the leftwing press that Starmer is too cautious but rather than this being about fighting an old battle over whether Labour can be trusted with the economy it could win a new battle over whether Labour are just a safe pair of hands rather than hubris driven maniacs.

JessS1990 · 19/03/2024 09:43

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 09:28

The Lords won't actually block the bill though for the constitutional reasons that 1 they can't use the Parliament Act now, they CD only do that btw 2nd and 3rd reading and 2 they are unelected. If they managed to stop it reaching the statute books the rightwing press could rightly say an unelected body had gone against the will of our elected representatives.

However it's still unclear if flights will leave as I cannot see how the bill without amendments satisfied the issues raised in the SC. So as soon as they try to get people on to planes there will be injunctions and we'll be back to square one. The SC saying the legislation is incompatible with our obligations under international law which it presumably will be is not equivalent to the Lords trying to delay it as it's literally their job to adjudicate on the legality of government actions (even if the press call them enemies of the people when they do this).

It sounds like there are practical issues with Rwanda wanting to delay too. I would be amazed if anyone ever goes to Rwanda.

I thought, and I am by no means expert on this that the parliament act and the Lords inability to amend legislation a 2nd time only applied if that bill was clearly in the governing parties manifesto?

bombastix · 19/03/2024 09:44

dontcallmelen · 19/03/2024 08:47

I’m not convinced Sunak is a human being, reckon he is a robot someone has knocked up in a basement for a bet.

I don't even know why he wanted the job. Which worries me. He seems to have a huge issue with the element of accountability and being asked questions about any of his decisions.

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 09:51

@JessS1990 that's the Salisbury Convention not the Parliament Act.

As you say they won't delay a bill beyond 60days if it was in the manifesto as that would prevent a parliament delivering it's election pledges. But that doesn't apply here.

They could not legally delay the bill further at this stage on any grounds and their lack of elected status would call into question the legitimacy of any attempts to do so. Plus it means they could get the blame of the bill then ends up back in front of the courts and is found wanting. At this stage strategically it makes more sense for them to pass the bill and let the govt own the mess when the SC rules it is illegal again. There are enough lawyers in the HL to predict this outcome.

DuncinToffee · 19/03/2024 09:56

CONFIRMED: 1922 Committee chairman Sir Graham Brady has just told Tory MPs that Rishi Sunak will address them tomorrow at 5pm.

https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1770013208943694126?s=20

OP posts:
Zonder · 19/03/2024 09:56

bombastix · 19/03/2024 09:44

I don't even know why he wanted the job. Which worries me. He seems to have a huge issue with the element of accountability and being asked questions about any of his decisions.

So he can benefit his wallet and those of his friends and family. It's worth a lot more than the measly PM salary. His in-laws have been given business investment opportunities that are worth millions.

IClaudine · 19/03/2024 09:59

Zonder · 19/03/2024 09:56

So he can benefit his wallet and those of his friends and family. It's worth a lot more than the measly PM salary. His in-laws have been given business investment opportunities that are worth millions.

It is quite revolting, the level of greed he and his friends and family display.

IClaudine · 19/03/2024 10:01

If the 1922 committee have any sense, they will force him to call an election. This farce going on until Oct/Nov is terrible for everyone.

bombastix · 19/03/2024 10:02

Vote of no confidence! There is no time for a leadership election

IClaudine · 19/03/2024 10:18

bombastix · 19/03/2024 10:02

Vote of no confidence! There is no time for a leadership election

Sorry, I meant a general election.

medianewbie · 19/03/2024 10:48

DuncinToffee · 19/03/2024 09:56

CONFIRMED: 1922 Committee chairman Sir Graham Brady has just told Tory MPs that Rishi Sunak will address them tomorrow at 5pm.

https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1770013208943694126?s=20

Does this mean the 1922 Committee are warning Sunak there may be a vote of no confidence?

JessS1990 · 19/03/2024 11:13

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 09:51

@JessS1990 that's the Salisbury Convention not the Parliament Act.

As you say they won't delay a bill beyond 60days if it was in the manifesto as that would prevent a parliament delivering it's election pledges. But that doesn't apply here.

They could not legally delay the bill further at this stage on any grounds and their lack of elected status would call into question the legitimacy of any attempts to do so. Plus it means they could get the blame of the bill then ends up back in front of the courts and is found wanting. At this stage strategically it makes more sense for them to pass the bill and let the govt own the mess when the SC rules it is illegal again. There are enough lawyers in the HL to predict this outcome.

Thank you.

DuncinToffee · 19/03/2024 11:23

Robert Buckland, the only Tory to rebel against the bill

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 19/03/2024 11:35

They are not holding back, and rightly so

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1770040679755817185?s=20

Damning response from dentists on the government NHS dentistry recovery plan.

"Too little, too late, not fit for purpose, dishonest, rubbish & a joke.. this recovery plan is not worthy of the title... you cannot build a collapsed wall with a box of poly filler.."

OP posts:
Zonder · 19/03/2024 11:44

medianewbie · 19/03/2024 10:48

Does this mean the 1922 Committee are warning Sunak there may be a vote of no confidence?

I was wondering that.

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 12:44

medianewbie · 19/03/2024 10:48

Does this mean the 1922 Committee are warning Sunak there may be a vote of no confidence?

i'm wondering this too. Won't it mean a Mexican stand-off? Sunak's said he'll go to the county if they try this but that would mean calling a GE immediately after the last date for an election on 02/05. I think he can call an election for 04/05 or any date after that but asking the public to come and vote twice in a matter of days would look ridiculous. Realistically the next date for an election is now late June.

But if the backbenchers have sent in their letters and are saying we want a new leader and Rishi immediately resigns there's no guarantee a new leader will arise instantly. For the PM solution to work she needs 100 MPs to support and no alternative candidates to get the backing of 100MPs. Plus it will drop her in it just before they get hammered in the local elections. I don't think she's stupid enough to want to be in charge then. She might not stand at all.

So presumably both sides know they have no ammo. And the former Defence Secretary said yesterday Rishi needs to march them towards the sound of the guns. Bet the mood will be great.

JessS1990 · 19/03/2024 12:46

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 12:44

i'm wondering this too. Won't it mean a Mexican stand-off? Sunak's said he'll go to the county if they try this but that would mean calling a GE immediately after the last date for an election on 02/05. I think he can call an election for 04/05 or any date after that but asking the public to come and vote twice in a matter of days would look ridiculous. Realistically the next date for an election is now late June.

But if the backbenchers have sent in their letters and are saying we want a new leader and Rishi immediately resigns there's no guarantee a new leader will arise instantly. For the PM solution to work she needs 100 MPs to support and no alternative candidates to get the backing of 100MPs. Plus it will drop her in it just before they get hammered in the local elections. I don't think she's stupid enough to want to be in charge then. She might not stand at all.

So presumably both sides know they have no ammo. And the former Defence Secretary said yesterday Rishi needs to march them towards the sound of the guns. Bet the mood will be great.

I'm not sure it would be unusual for Rishi and the Tory party to look ridiculous.

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 12:52

JessS1990 · 19/03/2024 12:46

I'm not sure it would be unusual for Rishi and the Tory party to look ridiculous.

True

cardibach · 19/03/2024 12:54

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 12:44

i'm wondering this too. Won't it mean a Mexican stand-off? Sunak's said he'll go to the county if they try this but that would mean calling a GE immediately after the last date for an election on 02/05. I think he can call an election for 04/05 or any date after that but asking the public to come and vote twice in a matter of days would look ridiculous. Realistically the next date for an election is now late June.

But if the backbenchers have sent in their letters and are saying we want a new leader and Rishi immediately resigns there's no guarantee a new leader will arise instantly. For the PM solution to work she needs 100 MPs to support and no alternative candidates to get the backing of 100MPs. Plus it will drop her in it just before they get hammered in the local elections. I don't think she's stupid enough to want to be in charge then. She might not stand at all.

So presumably both sides know they have no ammo. And the former Defence Secretary said yesterday Rishi needs to march them towards the sound of the guns. Bet the mood will be great.

Didn’t somebody post a timetable that said we haven’t yet reached the last day to call an election for the 2nd May? I had thought it was yesterday, but I seem to remember it’s actually next week sometime. 26th? I’ll see if I can find the timetable.

cardibach · 19/03/2024 12:57

Yes - he can call an election for 2nd May anytime up to 26th March. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9921/

BIossomtoes · 19/03/2024 13:01

I’m not holding my breath but I’m wearing my usual Pollyanna face for 2 May. If he decides to just go for it he’ll leave announcing it to the last possible moment.

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 13:02

cardibach · 19/03/2024 12:57

Yes - he can call an election for 2nd May anytime up to 26th March. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9921/

Edited

Ah OK so he does have some ammo. And I don't think they have any. Anyone with pretensions to be next leader would surely rather wait till after the GE than go now.

JessS1990 · 19/03/2024 13:04

Bigcoatlady · 19/03/2024 13:02

Ah OK so he does have some ammo. And I don't think they have any. Anyone with pretensions to be next leader would surely rather wait till after the GE than go now.

If you wait until after the election you know you will never be PM. So you have to go beforehand if that is your ambition.