How to call out someone who uses autism as an excuse for shitty behaviour?

[Higgeldypickeldy]

I have a family member who is female, 40s, single. Very very judgemental while blowing her own trumpet constantly, self centred, only talks about herself, bossy and controlling over my DC. Desperate to have an issue, e.g if you have a headache her headache will be ten times worse, blames everyone and everything for her woes in life without taking responsibility for her own actions and outcomes. After a particularly horrible day with her recently we pulled her up on something in a very minor way which has since blown out of all proportion and made to be all our fault. She is now saying all her shitty behaviour is due to her being autistic and that we dont understand her. I think she is definitely on the spectrum but feel she is using this to excuse and legitimise her shitty behaviour. But how do i challenge that without looking like an arsehole?

Well my sister is exactly the same with her ADHD. You can have adhd/ASD and still be a shit human

But how do i challenge that without looking like an arsehole?

You don't need to challenge her. You either accept her behaviour or you don't, the reason for it isn't too relevant.

I’m not sure if it’s the same but we have a similar person in our family and had the same issues and conversations we’ve had have been along the lines of “you know that when you do that or say that it hurts our feelings or offends us, you may not agree with why/understand why it upsets us but the fact that you know it does means you have to deal with the consequences when you knowingly do that”

If you tolerate her behaviour, how would she react? Would she keep escalating until she gets a reaction?
You can't fix her or change her behaviour. So you either change the way you react, or you limit the amount of damage she can do.

@strawberryandtomato yes! That is it exactly! She is quite happy to blow her own trumpet and tell everyone how amazing she is doing at her work etc but then argue that we shouldn't expect her to be polite to us because she's autistic.

Also my experience is to let these things cool off and not get caught up in arguing to and fro.

Ideally we would just go no contact. She has said before that people can take her or leave her. We would very happily leave her but she's back living with her mum and dad and so we are forced to see her whenever we see them.

Her mum is very very involved in her life and so it's a tricky situation. The consequence of this latest incident has been my DH being blamed for her shitty behaviour because he wasn't nice to her at secondary school many moons ago. That's totally unfair, you couldnt meet a more gentle person that my DH, but he had his own pals and didn't want to socialise with his sister at school! This has caused a big family fall out...like huge, verging on unrecoverable and i don't know how to help him resolve it without us just having to accept her shitty behaviour and roll over like a lap dog.

Op I don't see how the family can blame your husband for something that happened years ago!!! I would go no contact and avoid the drama lamas.

Have you heard of the Golden Child and Scapegoat dynamic? It sounds like your poor DH is the scapegoat in the family.

Yup, I'm so sad for him. He is a really lovely guy, proper tow the line type, never caused any drama or asked for anything from his parents really. And we've put up with his sisters shitty behaviour for years. She's absolutely not vindictive or mean, but just massively judgemental, bolshy, rude with a massive victim status attitude.
I actually think the even bigger problem is how much his mum endorses, and excuses his sisters behaviour and choices. And is very heavily involved in her life.

I'm surprised at how quickly and easily it feels like we've been ousted from the family group by his mum which is so hurtful, all because he finally called his sister out one night she was incredibly rude to their dad.

his mum has two absolutely amazing grandchildren who she hasn't seen or spoken to for 2 months now. Typing this has made me realise how sad I am about it, it almost feels unrecoverable

Op I'm sorry your mother in law is being so horrible. I know it's hard but for your family's peace of mind I would go no contact. Your sister in law's behaviour is inexcusable too. You don't need that sort of nastiness in your life x hugs to you all x

I think you need to go as low contact as possible with her, she sounds awful.

Can you invite your parents in law around to yours, or would they be brazen enough to bring her along? Can you visit them when she's likely to be out, at work maybe? Or would you have to reduce/ cut off in person contact with them, and if so is it worth it to avoid her, and the unfairness of your husband being made to feel that he's second best to her.

I have an autistic adult child. I am heavily involved in their life, because, you know, they have a disability based on differences in communication.

Have you read up in the double empathy problem, or indeed on autism at all? "Judgemental bolshy and rude" are all exactly what autistic people have been misinterpreted to be because of their communication differences for years. How would you prefer her to be autistic? Is there an acceptable face of autism for you?

Just saw your latest re your kids not seeing their grandparents, that's so sad. Would your father in law call meet you without SIL and MIL?

Is there any chance that your MIL would accept your husband saying that he has obviously offended his sister so feels that it's better all round if they don't see each other, but he really hopes she'll see her grandkids who miss her, or will she insist that SIL must be included.

I think it's great that your husband is setting boundaries - my brother is a nasty piece of work, I put up with him for years, haven't seen him in 5 years now, life is so much better.

And yes, black and white thinking , struggling to perceived others' viewpoints and ruminating over something every thinks they should have got over years ago are very typically autistic.

It's like being angry with someone with Downs Syndrome because they present with learning disabilities.

This is so tricky. I have an autistic ds and his level of understanding of others’ needs and feelings is very low. This has been professionally assessed and is in his reports. He is very bright so it can feel really surprising. Are you sure she has the ability to see where she’s going wrong? There are so many undiagnosed adults out there.

Also about minor ailments etc, lots of autistic people have sensory issues. A tiny cut is the end of the world to my dc and there would be tears.

You are being kinder than me, because I think it's the people who apparently don't have the disability and apparently don't have empathy problems who should do the being flexible and understanding bit, and not blame people for manifesting the essence of their disability.

If you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person - generalisations and stereotypes don’t help when you’re dealing with difficult people.

Which is just as well. Many cliches about autism aren’t flattering.

💐 OP. If this woman hasn’t been diagnosed she’s pushing it a bit to blame her bad manners on ND. Set boundaries.

DM and DSis can enjoy each other’s company. Avoid as much as possible while they’re in fantasy diagnosis mode. That’s a 🚩 in itself.

@Shortandfat I know several people with autism, various ages and stages of life and they all display the characteristics of that in different ways and behaviours unique to them. I'm not unaware or uneducated about that. My issue comes that I feel my SIL is using that as an excuse for pretty shitty behaviour. If I felt it was genuine I feel I would empathise and understand with that. I do think that plays a role to some extent but I also think there is some behaviour that isn't because of her autism but I feel that goes unchallenged and it's frustrating and I don't know to deal with it in a way that we can all move forwards without conflict or frustration. I think that's a pretty fair consideration.

@Higgeldypickeldy if you think she’s autistic could you explain why you think she understands her impact on others? This would help with what to suggest

What behaviour do you think isn’t the autism?

Autism isn't like that. If you are autistic it doesn't, I don't know, make you sound sensitive but not affect you when driving. Autistic people do everything autistically. It affects their perceptions, their experience of the world, the way they communicate, the way they are treated, the way they treat others. You can't step outside of your autism to do some things and then back inside it to do others.

You can’t challenge bad behaviour successfully while MIL is enabling it.

Let SIL go. She’ll carry on getting the sack/losing friends/nfi. You don’t have to put up with her. If MIL sacrifices her GC to her DD, she’s too unstable to be worth the candle.

I don’t know if it might also help understand MIL a bit if you have a look at a few threads on here about adult dc with SEN. My dc will always need help. Making sure he’s emotionally ok feels like a full time job and there have been times of real crisis. Many parent carers are totally tied to their autistic older dc and find it hard to go out and leave them and finding a way for fairness to siblings can be a lifelong struggle.