Thread 38 Sunak: Soooo, square one is an option then?

[AdamRyan]

Thanks to @cornettoninja For the epic title!

Freedom of speech only applies to a select number of individuals. And there's automatic disqualification if you have ever worked in or around sport.

Anything in it about breaking the law and lying to parliament?

If they don't want us to conflate Jews with what is happening in Gaza and the IDF why are they making this into an anti-semetic issue? I've seen huge amounts of support from the Jewish community globally against the continued bombing of Gaza. Surely they must be annoyed they're been pushed into the group doing the bombing rather than being allowed to be upset by it? Boris giving any talk warning of racism must mean we've flipped into an alternate reality.

I remember sitting in Prevent training a few years ago and thinking “Hang on, that could apply to me!” (animal rights, left leaning, against facism). So I waited for a deeper delve into the specifics and further explanation but it didn’t come. It’s a vague tool that, handily for anyone against free speech, could be applied to just about anyone. A staffroom discussion about hunting, for instance - I have a colleague who has been on hunts in the past and loves to go on about it and how ‘townies’ don’t understand. So if I argue back she could report me to Prevent. She probably wouldn’t as she’s not that sort of person, but in theory anyone hearing our conversation could.

I had the same thought as well when I did it. The CEO was saying we had a duty to report extremism - and I pointed out some of my beliefs and should they be reported - based on the definition.

As far as I can tell the purpose of the Prevent training is to say that the Prevent training has been carried out, and therefore it is your fault if someone does something bad, and nothing to do with the government defunding every service that might have had some impact before radicalisation occured.

I have noticed that there appears to be a move to try to politicise Gaza into a right/left debate (right=pro Israeli government, left = pro ceasefire).

It's really odd and I'm not sure what's driving it. It appears to be the same in the US too.

But at least America has recognised the genocide and sent aid. It's as if we have suddenly lost our ability to see, a massive blind spot. Remember when the Ukrainian War started and we were all urged to invite them into our homes? Why are we being told to look the other way and not care while at the same time Rishi tells us all about Christian values? I'd be furious at what the hypocrisy if I was a practising Christian!

What I don't understand about the situation in Gaza is, Israel felt the need to do something, surely by invading Israel now has responsibility for the civilians in the areas its forces control, and should be providing aid and shelter in those parts?

...all part of the same plot to make the "left" seem weak (or woke in their language) anti semitic, pro terrorist & as on a recent thread here, pro rape!!!

Which is rather odd, as it was the extreme right that carried out the Holocaust... all conveniently forgotten.

I would rather imagine that Israel is under the same influences we are under with the far right Tories - our ERG is their IDF. Your average civilian probably feels everything has gone overboard and way out of control but don't know how to stop it and is aware the world is looking on in dismay and judging. Sure there'll be some headbangers, the Tommy Robinsons of the group, saying "they should all die" and the rest, but I doubt it is the majority. Why the world is being led to believe this is what is truly frightening. Especially for the Jewish population, I should imagine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/world/europe/israel-hamas-war-uk-parliament.html

This last para rings very true with what I see posted on here about Labour:

“If you look at what Conservatives use against Labour, it’s that you can’t trust them because they will be controlled by others,” Mr. Katwala said. “At the moment, they’re switching from ‘woke leftists’ to ‘the Islamists.’”

You would think, but the Israeli line is very much "not our problem". As Gazans are stateless, its not clear whose problem it is.

The Middle East board gives a good view of the different positions, even though it can be a huge bunfight.

🙄🙄🙄

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5024523-illegal-immigrants

See, to me it is obvious that's a bot chat baiting heading.
MN is terrible for allowing these and I start to wonder if it is all part of this divisive game. The thread the other week about how MN are using AI in threads for products shows they've let it in and I suspect now can't control it hoovering up anything else.

“If you look at what Conservatives use against Labour, it’s that you can’t trust them because they will be controlled by others,” Mr. Katwala said. “At the moment, they’re switching from ‘woke leftists’ to ‘the Islamists.’”

But it's OK for the Tories to be controlled by dodgy donors, including Russians?

When Sunak arrived in Israel shortly after the Hamas atrocity he said to Netanyahu, "we want you to win". He didn't add 'no matter what it takes', nor did he specify what he meant by 'win'. I expect he knows, maybe he could explain.

I fear that "winning" is just going to create much bigger problems down the line and further radicalisation.

But that's a debate for elsewhere

You aren't wrong cake. He should never have expressed himself in those terms, careless, ignorant and impulsive. Just what is needed from a PM.

Two serving ministers go on record to urge the PM to increase defence spending, in a direct challenge to Sunak over defence record post Budget. Typically govt ministers lobby a PM behind closed doors, rather than publicly. Reflection perhaps of party discipline at moment

https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-urge-government-to-increase-defence-spending-in-highly-unusual-intervention-13090562

I guess we were due an immigrant thread

Yup, there we go, looks like it's all so we get more spends on the men with guns who make everything safe again.

I often wonder if the ERG/Russia/IDF aren't all just the same thing.

Not wrong either fabio12. They definitely have more in common with each other than anyone should be comfortable with.

I’ve found that over the last couple of weeks that local Facebook posts have anti immigration/asylum seekers comments even in the most innocuous subjects. An example is an old local authority old people’s home being sold. I first became aware of this in the run up to the Brexit vote when a post about getting a doctors appointment was derailed into crimes committed by Somalians in London - we are in the East Midlands.

I’m sure they are Tory supporters

Yes Vimyo , they're trying the same trick twice. Let's hope everyone remembers 'Fool me once . . . '