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What happened in the House of Commons tonight?

1000 replies

Bookridden · 21/02/2024 21:19

I'm struggling to understand what is going on and would be grateful is someone can explain to me in simple terms.

Why were Labour worried about the safety of MPs?

Why were the SNP unhappy?

Why were the Tories unhappy?

What's likely to happen next?

Are MPs who don't take a Pro-Palestinian stance really putting their lives at risk?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:57

EasternStandard · 21/02/2024 22:50

If so small Labour could just vote on the original rather than use the speaker as they did

Or they could have all just voted for the governments amendment couldn’t they? All are calling for a ceasefire now. As I understand the issue with the SNP was that there was no mention of a reasonable way forward and they wanted the collective punishment removed. They all look bloody ridiculous playing stupid games whilst 1.5 million people starve and Israel are about to launch a ground invasion in a refugee camp. I’m disgusted by lot of them.

BeretInParis · 21/02/2024 22:57

This is all about the upcoming election so each party's MPs can say to their electorate that they voted for the kind of ceasefire their electorate wanted.

The SNP who will lose loads of seats at the next election are trying to weaken Labour's position and don't have to worry about international relations.

The Labour Party will most likely win the next election, and understands and appreciates Israel's right to defend itself and root out a terrorist organisation that broke the original ceasefire, continues to fire rockets into Israel every day, still has hostages, has displaced hundreds of thousands of Israelis from their homes, and threatens to continue to do so until it is obliterates Israel and Jews from the earth. Many of the people who would vote for Labour don't understand and appreciate these facts so Labour is treading a fine line between political realities at home and abroad,

The Tories are in the same position as Labour re their understanding of what's going on in Gaza / Israel and so are supporting Israel.

The footage we see of the scale of the destruction of the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza is appalling as it's so intrinsically linked to civilian infrastructure- as Hamas actively uses Gazans as human shields. Many innocent people have died along side terrorists, though I refuse to accept Hamas' figures (given they're a terrorist organisation with a clear agenda). It's not a winning look to appear to support the continuation of such destruction, hence the call for a ceasefire. Which, as many posters have correctly pointed out, Hamas and Israel will ignore anyway. Which brings me back to my original point - this is all about the election.

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:58

We all know why labour couldn’t have voted for the SNP motion. Come on !

Interested in this thread?

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EasternStandard · 21/02/2024 22:59

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:57

Or they could have all just voted for the governments amendment couldn’t they? All are calling for a ceasefire now. As I understand the issue with the SNP was that there was no mention of a reasonable way forward and they wanted the collective punishment removed. They all look bloody ridiculous playing stupid games whilst 1.5 million people starve and Israel are about to launch a ground invasion in a refugee camp. I’m disgusted by lot of them.

Starmer was scared of a rebellion

That’s all it was. Not even about the situation they were voting on, just saving his ass

User135644 · 21/02/2024 23:00

Who cares?

Country going to hell in a handcart but we'll waste all our time arguing about some unending conflict on the other side of the world.

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 23:00

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:57

Or they could have all just voted for the governments amendment couldn’t they? All are calling for a ceasefire now. As I understand the issue with the SNP was that there was no mention of a reasonable way forward and they wanted the collective punishment removed. They all look bloody ridiculous playing stupid games whilst 1.5 million people starve and Israel are about to launch a ground invasion in a refugee camp. I’m disgusted by lot of them.

No, the government were calling for a humanitarian pause while working towards a permanent ceasefire, not an immediate ceasefire. Labour were calling for an immediate ceasefire. SNP were calling for a ceasefire and accusing Israel of war crimes.

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 23:03

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 23:00

No, the government were calling for a humanitarian pause while working towards a permanent ceasefire, not an immediate ceasefire. Labour were calling for an immediate ceasefire. SNP were calling for a ceasefire and accusing Israel of war crimes.

Really semantics though. All parties want a stop to the fighting as soon as it’s possible for it to be agreed.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 21/02/2024 23:04

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 22:45

But the Tories knew their amendment would be selected and they would vote for their ceasefire amendment so didn't need to go to Hoyle with concerns about not being able to vote for it?

I think Hoyle saying that they couldn't have a vote at all on the SNP motion would have been impossible given that it was a day specifically for them to be able to table a motion of their choice.

Why would you not think that threats against Labour MPs were genuine? Not sure why you are trying to downplay these threats given the murders of Jo Cox and Sir David Amess. A man was arrested within the last couple of weeks for threats against Mike Freer.

And Sir Lindsay Hoyle has cited MP safety as the reason he was persuaded to allow both amendments.

Re the reported threats, because I find it incredibly coincidental and all rather convenient for Labour in connection with one debate and vote.

I don’t doubt that threats are made in general. I imagine they’re received all too often from lots of groups and from crazed individuals. I’ve never before heard of Parliamentary process changing because of it though.

OvaHere · 21/02/2024 23:06

I clicked on the trending 'resign' hashtag on X thinking I could follow what this was about but it seems like a lot of people are also demanding resignations from Biden, Trudeau and Clarence Thomas today as well as Hoyle and Starmer.

Made it rather hard to parse!

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 21/02/2024 23:08

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 22:57

Here's the crowd outside parliament tonight calling for an intifada (previous intifadas have involved lots of killing and violent attacks) and also supporting Houthi terrorists in attacking international shipping.

https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1760424933203587211?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

I wouldn't want to walk out of parliament through that lot having abstained from a ceasefire vote, would you?

No. But I wouldn’t seek parliamentary advantage on that basis though.

Personally, I’d rather these demonstrations were only allowed elsewhere and more heavily policed.

justasking111 · 21/02/2024 23:12

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 23:00

No, the government were calling for a humanitarian pause while working towards a permanent ceasefire, not an immediate ceasefire. Labour were calling for an immediate ceasefire. SNP were calling for a ceasefire and accusing Israel of war crimes.

Accusing Israel of war crimes will make the SNP anti semites the way the media will spin it.

Starmer has a historical problem with anti semitism.

It's such a mess

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/02/2024 23:13

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 21/02/2024 21:56

I suspect they were bogus. And if they weren’t, this is a wholly unjustifiable way of addressing them.

Jo Cox.

Need I say more?

The answer is more security for MPs, not them bowing to mob rule and threats.

justasking111 · 21/02/2024 23:13

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:57

Or they could have all just voted for the governments amendment couldn’t they? All are calling for a ceasefire now. As I understand the issue with the SNP was that there was no mention of a reasonable way forward and they wanted the collective punishment removed. They all look bloody ridiculous playing stupid games whilst 1.5 million people starve and Israel are about to launch a ground invasion in a refugee camp. I’m disgusted by lot of them.

That or a free vote according to belief, conscience.

carerneedshelp · 21/02/2024 23:17

Utterly ashamed of the entire lot of them!

Do we have a single competent MP in this country?

We really are going to hell in a handcart! Ffs!

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/02/2024 23:21

EasternStandard · 21/02/2024 22:07

Why would the SNP care about exploiting a split in Labour?

They just wanted a ceasefire motion to unite the house

It was Labour who played games to avoid their own massive issue

It's foolish to look at what the SNP do in Westminster without also looking at what SNP members do in Holyrood.

Popcorn23 · 21/02/2024 23:22

kitfree1 · 21/02/2024 21:35

The SNP wanted to make life difficult for Starmer to deflect from their own problems. Why they thought they needed to do that who knows, Starmer is so dull light avoids him.

Well, there have been 30,000 Palestinian deaths in 4 months, about half of those are children. Many would call this a genocide. Britain's position in supporting this is damaging its international reputation as well as being inhumane, quite frankly. I would say it is an important matter in its own right.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/02/2024 23:25

Hellocatshome · 21/02/2024 22:11

I must admit to not being very politically minded but does it actually matter which party gets to call for an immediate cease fire when them calling for it actually means bog all in terms of if there will actually be a cease fire?

The word you are looking for is "virtue-signalling".

I don't see us opening a "Homes For Palestinians" scheme the way we had "Homes For Ukrainians".

Popcorn23 · 21/02/2024 23:34

BeretInParis · 21/02/2024 22:57

This is all about the upcoming election so each party's MPs can say to their electorate that they voted for the kind of ceasefire their electorate wanted.

The SNP who will lose loads of seats at the next election are trying to weaken Labour's position and don't have to worry about international relations.

The Labour Party will most likely win the next election, and understands and appreciates Israel's right to defend itself and root out a terrorist organisation that broke the original ceasefire, continues to fire rockets into Israel every day, still has hostages, has displaced hundreds of thousands of Israelis from their homes, and threatens to continue to do so until it is obliterates Israel and Jews from the earth. Many of the people who would vote for Labour don't understand and appreciate these facts so Labour is treading a fine line between political realities at home and abroad,

The Tories are in the same position as Labour re their understanding of what's going on in Gaza / Israel and so are supporting Israel.

The footage we see of the scale of the destruction of the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza is appalling as it's so intrinsically linked to civilian infrastructure- as Hamas actively uses Gazans as human shields. Many innocent people have died along side terrorists, though I refuse to accept Hamas' figures (given they're a terrorist organisation with a clear agenda). It's not a winning look to appear to support the continuation of such destruction, hence the call for a ceasefire. Which, as many posters have correctly pointed out, Hamas and Israel will ignore anyway. Which brings me back to my original point - this is all about the election.

Interesting you mention Israelis being displaced but conveniently ignore the fact that Israel has been building illegal settlements on Palestinian land for over 70 years. After bombing the whole of North Gaza, they have also bombed the South, and parts of the West Bank which ha nothing to do with Hamas, because why not? Add to that the bombing of schools, universities, hospitals and refugee camps. The reason there are now calls for a ceasefire, is because the ground invasion of Rafah and the bombing of 'safe sites' that Palestinians have been driven to, is a crime so heinous, it has forced the UK and US to finally decide they can no longer look to be blatantly supporting war crimes. It also doesn't help that Israeli government members have been so open about wiping out Palestinians. So all in all, not a great look for the UK government.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 21/02/2024 23:34

Grandmasswag · 21/02/2024 22:57

Or they could have all just voted for the governments amendment couldn’t they? All are calling for a ceasefire now. As I understand the issue with the SNP was that there was no mention of a reasonable way forward and they wanted the collective punishment removed. They all look bloody ridiculous playing stupid games whilst 1.5 million people starve and Israel are about to launch a ground invasion in a refugee camp. I’m disgusted by lot of them.

💯

changefromhr · 21/02/2024 23:46

Popcorn23 · 21/02/2024 23:34

Interesting you mention Israelis being displaced but conveniently ignore the fact that Israel has been building illegal settlements on Palestinian land for over 70 years. After bombing the whole of North Gaza, they have also bombed the South, and parts of the West Bank which ha nothing to do with Hamas, because why not? Add to that the bombing of schools, universities, hospitals and refugee camps. The reason there are now calls for a ceasefire, is because the ground invasion of Rafah and the bombing of 'safe sites' that Palestinians have been driven to, is a crime so heinous, it has forced the UK and US to finally decide they can no longer look to be blatantly supporting war crimes. It also doesn't help that Israeli government members have been so open about wiping out Palestinians. So all in all, not a great look for the UK government.

This.

Viviennemary · 21/02/2024 23:46

I thought the problem arose because he picked both the SNP and the Labour amendment. This is not usually allowed. He should have just picked one. Did so misunderstand. Still don't get what all the fuss was about, it was chaotic though..

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2024 23:49

It was the SNP's motion. He picked both the Labour and Conservative amendment. Convention is usually to only pick the government amendment to an opposition motion, however this has happened before, it's not unprecedented.

Saladpops · 21/02/2024 23:49

Why couldn't Labour vote for the government amendment?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/02/2024 23:49

Viviennemary · 21/02/2024 23:46

I thought the problem arose because he picked both the SNP and the Labour amendment. This is not usually allowed. He should have just picked one. Did so misunderstand. Still don't get what all the fuss was about, it was chaotic though..

Tory and Labour amendments. It was an SNP motion. He should have only picked the Govt (Tory) amendment.

CranfordScones · 21/02/2024 23:51

What happened was a distraction - a breach of parliamentary convention and a bit of game-playing.

The real issue is the safety of MPs in their constituencies, and those who would seek to intimidate them using mob violence.

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