Bright child who doesn't quite deliver

[Strombolilara]

DD (almost 6.5 yo) in Y1 is very capable academically, particularly strong in maths. Over the last couple of months she's gone from Y1 stuff to Y3, constantly asking me at home to 'do maths' and loves it. She can for instance mentally add 3 digit numbers with regrouping, do quarters of 3 digit numbers, almost fluent with times tables, fractions etc. She learns very quickly and takes it to the next level.

However, at school, despite them working on a much lower level she doesn't quite deliver. She's one of the slowest in the class, almost never finishes her work and therefore she's not even in the top group for maths, although she says it's all quite easy. Yesterday they were given a little exercise where they had to add missing numbers in a square box of 1 to 100 and she was one of the last ones to put her work down and she hasn't even finished. She seemed upset about it enough to tell us. This is not the first time it happens.

I do suspect some SEN but no one listens to us. Her teacher reported last term that she zones out quite a bit and is a bit slow and that there are things to keep an eye on but nothing too worrying. I've been thinking about ASD or inattentive ADHD.

I can see her confidence slipping a bit and I just don't know how to support her. How can I child who is so capable not deliver? I was a straight A student (in a different country) although I don't think I was as smart as her, definitely wasn't doing 3 digit number additions in my head at the age of 6. In fact I only started school at 6.5 yo.

She is perfect in her behaviour at school, very polite and kind, great listening, but very defiant and a bit hyper at home.

(I did speak to an NHS pediatrician about it, but they've totally dismissed my concerns as there are no obvious signs of struggle).

Can anyone relate to this?

I wonder if this resonates with you: a high potential girl who struggles at school. Plus some resources to help. I haven't used these so can't vouch for them but it sounds like your story.

Lily-Mae's Story - Potential Plus UK

If the PE teacher has mentioned co-ordination then worth looking to see if there are any other issues eg how is she with cutting things out and what is her pincer grip like. Does she get tired of writing quite quickly? I say this as my DD was very like this and turned out she was dyspraxic which affects the way she thinks. So a very obvious (to me her father and her sister) maths question might send her around the houses as she didn't understand the question but was the first in the year to know her times tables etc. You mentioned that she seemed to have difficulty with filling in a maths grid - it might be that she didn't understand what to do/how it worked as she thinks differently. As DD went through secondary school it was interesting to see the adaptations she needed - eg to observe a group doing a chemistry practical rather than doing it herself as if she did it she couldn't remember what she'd done whereas if she watched it she could replay it in her mind like rewinding a film. Her maths teacher used to tell her not to listen when she explained a concept to the class and then when the rest were getting on with an exercise would sit and explain it to her in a completely different way as that was how her brain worked.

Thank you so much for this, very interesting. It does resonate a little.

I had the same with DS and found out he has slow processing speed. It’s something I had never heard of before he was diagnosed by speech and language.

Inattentive adhd very hard to pick up at that age especially in girls. Mine were diagnosed as teens and only after my daughter read an article on it and realised it described her. School did not notice but yet when they completed the teacher questionnaire it was their report which helped with her diagnosis

Possibly, you might have a point. I think she does have a slightly unusual way of understanding and explaining things. The teacher did mention 'alternative processing' a few months ago.

My DS was a bit like this, at least he would be really inconsistent in tests, so sometimes he would do really well, and others it just seemed that he just hadn't been able to do "his best", so would get low marks or not finish. One thing I noticed was that he used to sit a bit haphazardly at his desk, sideways or at an angle. One thing that really seemed to help was working on a "test position", so that he would sit straight forwards at the desk, keep the paper straight and think about only having to do this for the duration of the test. It seemed to help him "get in the zone" for shortish bursts which is still a good skill now that he's at uni 😁

She is 6. She does not need to be delivering. She needs to be making friends, settling, learning boundaries and respect, socialising, and just generally enjoying school.

She is doing lots of that already!

Then chill out and don’t push her. She’s doing fine.

No one is pushing her! Read my pp

@Mariposistaaa that's not very helpful, when there is a discrepancy between ability and delivery it's important to flag it, make note and see if any support needs to be put in place.

What the OP is describing is a sign of many conditions or perfectly normal childhood development but it needs to be kept an eye on even if she doesn't need support now she may do in the future.

Lots of children thrive on doing academic tasks at home and actually enjoy it without being hot housed.

@mindutopia(Sorry that was meant for OP and I don't seem to be able to delete the @)

@Strombolilara make a note of your concerns in a safe space like her red book. If you decide to go down the assessment route in future you have to give a full developmental history right from pregnancy so having notes of quirks, teachers observations, photos or videos of certain behaviour categorised toys, repetitive activities etc is incredibly useful if you need them instead of having to remember back a decade or so.

I was very similar in school, especially primary school and with maths. She sounds like me as a child. Loved the complicated stuff but really struggled with what is obvious to most people. Easier stuff is actually more difficult for her even though it makes no logical sense. Even though I was smart, I would feel stupid.

Is there any chance that she is completely bored of stuff that's too easy for her and just zones out?

I used to struggle with having to do all the steps in the calculation when I just knew the answer. Even to this day I can't fully explain how, it's like my brain silently calculates it but having to explain each step and break it down seems pointless & extraordinarily difficult. I frequently got in trouble for not showing my workings and teachers assumed I was cheating. I don't blame them I couldn't prove how I got the answer.

Does she struggle with learning as to opposed to just knowing something intuitively?

For example, she'll refuse to learn her spellings as she knows she can just wing it and get mimimium 8/10 by just guessing.

If I'm in anyway close to sounding similar, try everything you can do to help her change how she learns.

I did really well in college too but never actually learnt how to learn. I just went by memory and it carried me a long way.

She needs to learn how to actually learn.

I really struggled to drive because I couldn't grasp it immediately. It didn't happen intuitively like academic work did. I actually didn't know how to break down the steps and put it all together. By the time, I got to step 5, the other were home from memory. Or I could remember everything but not manage to do it all at once. It was likely my brain was malfunctioning. I understood it but couldn't do it.

Anything that requires a process and steps still sometimes challenges me and I have to go really slowly to make sure I do every step.

I'm probably explaining this terribly but I hope it makes some sense.

I am not ND but suspect people will comment asking if I'm sure about that!

TLDR: does she know how to learn or is she just doing things instinctively?

Thank you, yes I.should start writing a journal. We have had other little red flags since she started school. Shame I haven't started writing everything down as we always say she'll just grow out of things.

Definitely get wisc test done even if psychologist doesnt think she needs a diagnosis if you can afford it. It is incredibly helpful in understanding learning styles and strengths/weaknesses. You may find reading/writing are far behind what would be expected if high IQ due to dyslexia but obviously wont be picked up if she is getting average results. It can also explain their frustrations at school if they have a spiky profile.

My son went through the whole of primary only writing small amounts and not finishing work despite being very bright. Every parents evening was the same, pressuring him to speed up and feeling like a failure. He reached secondary school and they immediately assessed him as slow processing and he got an extra 25% in exams. When I look back and reflect, his primary school could have done a lot better with strategies and building confidence.

That's an interesting question. The answer is I'm not sure if I'm being honest. I think she is quite intuitive and doesn't like working hard to learn something. Plus she does things on her own terms. She loves maths so she could do maths all day but if she doesn't like something, it's really hard to get her interest.

For instance she's great at Piano and I think she does have a bit of talent for music but doesn't like practicing. If she doesn't get it straight away she'd run away, would shout at us in frustration and so on. But then she learns the song very quickly and plays it with her eyes closed shortly after.

Your question is interesting as I think I was an intuitive learner and found the school very easy, I'd revise one evening and get a perfect score next day but really really struggled at uni as that was a lot harder and required a lot of learning and commitment. Uni really humbled me and this is when I learned to learn.

Oh bless him! Hope he is doing well now x

That's my biggest fear, not intervening early enough and let them struggle unnecessarily.

He’s thriving! He’s now 20 and his career/interests are excelling in specialist areas he loves.

She might be bored because it's not challenging enough

I resonate with every thing you've said here.

On her owns term
Need to be interested
Frustration when something didn't come naturally

What helped me was forcing myself to slow down. It's like I process too quickly and usually get it right more often than not but miss out on things on occasionally but can't understand why when it works most of the time.

I had to force myself to learn by going slowly.

Get her to do everything with the long hand method and tell her it's just as important.

The good news is it doesn't have any significant impact on my life. I can drive perfectly, it just took a lot longer than everyone else.

She probably also needs encouragement with her patience levels too. Pick the longest queue in the supermarket and get her used to slowing down.

Go for walks and deliberately walk slower and tell her you can't keep up. Force her to have to slow down how she operates.

Try cooking with her and having to slowly read the recipe and measure everything accurately and carefully. Her natural instinct will be to do it by guessing & at speed etc.

There's nothing majorly wrong, she just doesn't excel unless she can do so at speed & without thinking.

OP, I think the 'stop pushing' comments are coming from your use of 'doesn't quite deliver' (which is a bit of a startling phrase to use about a tiny child, tbf - it does make it seem as if you put a lot of emphasis on her performance rather than her being, although if English is not your first language it may have 'come out wrong') and the fact that you're obviously very keen that she prove academic/high-achieving.

FWIW, I have had a child with a big gap between ability and processing speed, who had an ADD diagnosis at 7 - I say 'have had' because he did in fact 'grow out of it' (for want of a much better turn of phrase) and I doubt would have qualified for that diagnosis much beyond 11 or 12. He's 19 soon and turned down a university place for medicine last year. I am obviously not going to engage in armchair diagnoses (or fobbings-off), but this could be your dd's trajectory too, and there is a lot to be said for not hyperfocusing on perceived deficits. By all means look into getting her extra support, but don't automatically dismiss the view of professionals who aren't concerned, and place the focus on making her life easier rather than on upping her academic results. Good luck.

Oh, and I also have an 8yo who detests it if she can't get something right the first time. She's slowly (through learning an instrument, for example) learning more patience and to sustain effort. She's very ahead of her class in some, but not all areas. And AFAI can tell, she's NT.

Thank you. Yes, English is not my first language, so I didn't realise the 'deliver' might come out the wrong way.

I agree with everything you said and it may well be that she'll grow out of it when she's older. My concerns really started in the autumn term when her teacher first brought up the fact that she's slower than her peers although her work is mostly very good, and she, most of the time, doesn't finish. The teacher said this wasn't a problem at the time but thought it may become a problem when she's older if things don't improve, so she suggested to keep an eye on it. In the meantime she made a massive progress with Maths so I thought perhaps she's getting better in the class too, but surprisingly it didn't and DD seems a little down about it. It's like she's surprising herself negatively and doesn't know why she didn't perform as well as she could at such an easy task.

I did think she may be bored but there are quite a few very bright/good at maths girls in the class who are also fast and finish their tasks to a good level and are in the top maths group. DD thinks she should be in that group and is a little bothered by that. I didn't know about the top set until recently.

My dd was bright like that, and she completely lost all confidence in her ability because the work was far too simple. I can remember her trying to explain it to me. To give you an example, she couldn't understand why they kept on asking her what colour was this, and that, and she was starting to doubt herself. She knew all too well they were red, blue, green, yellow, whatever, but because they kept on asking her what colour the yellow thing was, she thought she must be getting it wrong. Similar happened with maths. She was doing the same very simple basic sums over and over, and again, thought that they kept asking her because she wasn't getting it right. She got to the stage where she would clam up when they asked her anything because she was afraid of getting it wrong.