UK officially in recession...

[Startingagainandagain]

Latest stats released show the UK is now officially in recession (Office for national statistic data).

Gaslighting has started in the media by ministers to try to minimise that fact.

Isn't it time to face the facts instead and call a general election?

I know the picture is bleak and any new party in power will need years to try to sort out this mess but something needs to be done...

The UK's decline in the past few decade or so has really been dramatic.

If you hop over to the DLA threads the vast majority of posters are awarded for ASD/ADHD children. I’m absolutely not blaming the individuals, they’re just applying for something they’re told is available to them. But is it really sustainable? Especially given the rise in such diagnoses? Even some of the posters have expressed surprise they qualified or were awarded higher rates than expected. A few have commented about how little evidence they had to supply when they expected it to be more in depth.

@Naptrappedmummy

Total disability payments are 39 billion per year, PIP is £172, NMW is well over £400 gross for a FT job, so no one is better off ( bear in mind you'll be getting in work benefits on the nmw too, unless a single person)

8% is thought to be fraudulent, so less than 4 billion.

Anyone who seriously thinks benefit fraud is the reason the country is going down the pan hasn't really looked at the numbers.

Even if the country scrapped all disability payments, its still less than 2% of GDP or 3 months spend on the NHS.

Don’t need to hop over, I’ve been through the process. Unless you can prove need you won’t get it. Caring for somebody ill to the extent they need PIP has a massive impact on resources- ability to pay mortgages, pensions, caring for other children, impact on jobs, MH, food, heating, travel…. and that isn’t even the person struggling with the disability themselves and the impact on their life. My DD’s PIP has enabled us to keep working.

Yep the only one i know who gets PIP for Autism, means their mum can work FT, it has also enabled him to get a PT job.

Yes and a comparable country, France, is £10 billion. What’s going wrong?

As for the 4 billion, that’s actually double what we lose to non dom status every year, so interesting it’s suddenly seen as a ‘minor’ figure now…

I think benefits in general are unsustainable, I don’t believe in non means tested benefits other than pensions, I don’t think benefits are the reason we are stony broke but I think they’re a contributing factor.

I wasn’t talking about PIP.

Pls dont put words in my mouth.

I never said it was a minor amount but it isn't the reason the country is screwed.

PIP is a huge amount of disability payments, so if you re banging on about benefits, you'd better state which ones?

Or have you just realised you don't know what your talking about?

My neighbour is trying to sell the house they bought for £375k in 2017 for £680k. No renovations or extensions and no change to the local area, it literally looks exactly the same. Absolutely ridiculous!

Bring on the recession and reduce house prices. The next generation need affordable housing.

I didn’t say you said it was a minor amount.

Gosh the anger. I really have touched a nerve.

Recessions don't cheap mass housing, it just means misery for those that can't now afford a mortgage as they lose their jobs and lenders stop lending.... and a huge reduction in properties available for sale.

Want to solve housing crisis? Build council housing, cheap rents = more money in peoples pockets and the local economy.

Yes you did, thats exactly what you said.

Anger? no not from me, you re just acting the victim now that you cannot back up your false assertions.

This is what happens when people buy property as an investment not as a home.

Do you mean the neighbours? To be fair it probably was their home (for 7 years) they’re just being greedy selling it. It’s fine, if it’s overpriced nobody will buy. There’s loads of houses hanging on the market round here which are massively overpriced and nobody is touching them. They reduce once every 6 months or so!

I didn’t. I said it isn’t a minor figure. Given the way you phrased it, you sounded like you were insinuating it was. Anyone with eyes can see that.

I’m not a victim, just exasperated with the pure rage that is directed at me when I point out the obvious. Nobody wants people to suffer, you would have to be an arsehole to want that. If I could wave a wand and give everyone everything they wanted I would. But we are skint, our spending on several things (including benefits) is unsustainable, and unless we turn it around they won’t even be able to pay benefits in around 20 years. It’ll be a second world country where you get £20 a week and women/children are forced to beg.

I don't agree with this. What happens, is all of the houses overestimate their value which overinflates the perceived value of the area. It doesn't make that one house look unrealistic and it sits on the market, it makes their neighbours do the same and suddenly all local houses are crazily high.

Then, Londoners come, thinking they're buying into a great area with comparatively affordable housing (to them!) and they buy it. So the locals are pushed out unnecessarily.

These aren't houses that increase due to increased amenities or beautiful renovations. These are bog standard housing estate houses that double in 6 years. Probably priced to drop to £650k for the "lucky" buyer.

So do you think house prices should be capped, eg you can only add 2% of purchase price per year of ownership onto the asking price? I would be open to that.

You don't believe in non means tested benefits other than pensions?

So you would like to abolish:

Contribution based ESA (note the "contribution" element), which is only paid for a year unless you are found to be incapable of work.

PIP ( which is also paid to people in work. That extra money can help them stay in work).

DLA for disabled children.

All paid to disabled people. There are no other non means tested benefits.

You clearly have issues with disabled people. Why?

I'm not sure as that limits people who want/need to complete renovations/extensions and then need to move.

BUT something needs to be done. Doubling your houses value with zero work is absolute greed and totally short sighted and selfish for those who then bare the grunt (next generation).

It’s what’s happened to every single house in the country. We bought our home 25 years ago. If it went on the market now the asking price would be 3.5 times what we paid. The same goes for every house on the street. It’s got fuck all to do with the motivation of buyers.

But something needs to be done, and typically, it does involve house prices reducing or stilting.

And perhaps people have overstretched, that's on them surely? My best friend has 100% overstretched herself and if house prices reduced, it would mean she needs to stay there for longer to see out a recession. Not ideal if she wants to move but equally, not my kids problem either.

Everyone wants more more more these days. And the consequence of over borrowing is harrowing.

House prices NEED to come down. Even if that means many of us are disadvantaged in the shorter term (myself included).

We're having an election in November. Bringing it forward 6 months won't make hardly any difference.

Don't worry, Starmer will be here soon enough and then all our problems will be over.

@Naptrappedmummy

''I don’t think we can afford to give out non-means-tested benefits either. I accept everything I say is wildly unpopular but there simply isn’t the money. There are many other areas where cutbacks should also be made.''

You really don't understand what it means to live with disabilities do you...

Anyway this is not what this thread is about.

The UK is not recession and our standards of living have not gone down dramatically because a tiny minority of people might get PIP by being deceitful.

It always amazes me how many people in this country still swallow the 'blame the EU/immigrants/people on benefits' for everything narrative sold by the right wing press and Tory governments.

This has been done for years and is just smoke and mirrors to avoid scrutiny of incompetent and corrupt governments who only care about making sure they and their rich mates get richer at our expense...

The biggest scroungers these days are either sitting in Parliament or are big companies that don't pay their fair share of tax.

Of course our problems won’t be over. I realise that was sarcasm but even so what a ridiculous thing to say.

..because you are coming out with statements that don't reflect the reality.

even if ALL disability payments stopped, it would add just 39bn to the Govt's coffers - that 39bn whilst welcome, isn't going to turn the country around.

Hunt gave 20bn in tax cuts, Sunak wasted 26bn on HS2, 37bn on covid tests, 11bn wasted on Cv support loans fraudulently claimed, which sunak than wrote off as unrecoverable.

But you focus in on £172 per week and fraud of 4bn.

We need to grow the economy, get people on waiting lists treated, invest in public services but wisely instead of this scattergun/firefighting wasteful approach.

And yet the calculated rate of benefit fraud is less than 3% according to the government and many put it around 1%
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2022-to-2023-estimates#:~:text=3.6%25%20(%C2%A38.3%20billion),billion)%20of%20total%20benefit%20expenditure

You claimed 50% ("for every genuine claimant" etc). Can you back up your claim with evidence? And no, "I know 3 people who haven't worked a day in their lives and have a gold plated house and 7 holidays a year" is not evidence.