Cultural differences Scotland and England

[CauleyMacGlochlin]

So surprised to see on a recent thread that in England secondary school pupils are often not allowed out of school for lunch until 6th form, which Google tells me means 16-18. I'm gobsmacked. I've never heard of anything like this in Scotland and I've lived all over the country (grew up in Glasgow and moved around in adulthood)

I also recently discovered that English school pupils can't leave education at 16. They have to stay in education til 18 unless they have an apprenticeship.

Got me thinking about cultural differences between the countries that I've maybe been oblivious all this time. Any others?

They would almost certainly have been a Classics graduate, surely? It is quite unusual to do a pure BA in Latin. IME usually you study Classics (which includes the mythology and ancient philosophy) and choose to specialise in either Latin or Ancient Greek.

You see, this makes me shiver. Why do these pupils deserve less? Their knowledge is developing, this is when they deserve to be taught by someone who has deep knowledge & passion for their subject. Our unions are really strong & would never allow it, I believe.

I very much agree in principle that all teachers should have a degree in the subject they teach. However, it's not always the case that students lose out, and it's possible that sometimes the non subject-specialist will be the best or indeed only option. Such are the levels of teacher shortages in England that it will often be a choice between a non subject-specialist teacher or no teacher at all.

Fwiw I think I did a good job of teaching the Year 8 English class I had during the maternity cover I did. My MFL degree was mostly literature-based and, as a linguist, I have considerably better SpaG than a lot of English teachers I've met. I also had nearly 25 years' teaching experience. Ultimately, the school will make the best choice they can out of the staff they have available. If they could not recruit a subject but were not legally allowed to use a non-specialist, what would they do?

Hmm. I don’t know the answer but our Latin teacher also taught Classics (mythology etc, an elective at my school but no exam in it) /
as well as Philosophy (I think there were exams in that one) and the usual RME (religious and moral education).

But he/she would presumably have done a Classics degree, so that's perfectly normal.

I had no idea how the degree process working for those subjects. Didn’t know they were sort of all-in-one. That’s interesting! She also ran our debate club. Great teacher, wonderful lady!

I agree with you: what alternative is there if teacher shortages are so bad.

I'm sure you did a great job, but that won't be the case everywhere. It's sad.

I think scrambles are a Scottish thing.

Enjoying all the Scottish words:

Oose
Skelf
Slater
Stank
Squint (or squinty)

Another word I didn't realise was Scottish for a long time is bumfled

Or Morton’s rolls?

It’s a fascinating interdisciplinary degree. The Oxford classics degree is still called ‘literae humaniores’, literally ‘more human literature’ and includes the study of the ancient languages and the corresponding literature, the history and archaeology of Ancient Rome and Greece, plus ancient philosophy. Ancient rhetoric will come into it to so that would account for the expertise in debating!

One of the best English teachers I ever worked with was a classicist. Her knowledge and teaching of grammar in English was unparalleled and I learnt so much from her despite being an English graduate myself (Language and Lit). My limited understanding of the Scottish system suggests that she wouldn’t have been able to work as an English teacher in Scottish state schools.

Some people are dual-qualified (History/ RMPS or History/ Modern Studies or PE/ Dance or Music/ Drama) but most have just one subject.

If you have 2 years of university education (we have a 4 yr degree) in a subject, you could do a 'conversion ' course in your own time, at your own expense. It's not common, but does happen.

When Philosophy & Psychology were brought in as new subjects a few years back, teachers with degrees/ 2 years at uni were offered conversion free. I have a Psychology & English degree, so could have done it, but in my council they outsourced the Psychology qualification & brought lecturers in, so I wasn't given funding.

I had no idea how the degree process working for those subjects. Didn’t know they were sort of all-in-one.

It's like doing a modern languages or an English degree - you don't just learn the language, you also study literature and possibly other cultural things, depending on your degree course.

That’s really interesting. Thanks for the explanation. It’s clearly a deep-running cultural difference as it seems unnecessarily bureaucratic and limiting to me to make it difficult and expensive for teachers to pursue a new area of expertise, but I am sure for others it is a marker of excellence.

What do these words mean, I've never heard of them

Oose
Bumfled

Doing the messages to get wee bits for the weans.

Oose is the general dusty, fluffy, fabricy crap that collects on your clothes.

Bumfled is when your duvet or your jumper or something like that is all bumfled up and you need to straighten it out.

And “oose” is pronounced to rhyme with moose rather than shoes

@Doublenoogahsilvousplait Thanks

Never heard of either of them though. I quite like bumfled, so might use that 🤣

There are some Catholic schools, God features heavily and you can’t work there unless you’ve been signed off by a priest. Dundee and Glasgow have the most segregated schools and also the biggest problem with sectarianism in pockets of the city linked to stupid football culture. Lots of people disagree with these schools being tax payer funded. All other schools are non denominational and outnumber Catholic schools by far.

I suspect there's lots of differences OP. The education thing in England is a newish rule I'm early 30s and I left school at 16. My school did have a 6th form but I went to a college I absolutely loved it made some brilliant friends.

I think it's appalling too. And who does the LSA's job if they're having to do a teachers job? It's not happened at my Y7's school, thus far anyway.

This doesn't shock me I'm glad you have confirmed this. A friend of mine speaks about moving to Scotland because her kids could go to uni for free. Nothing is for free and I've noticed nurses leaving Scotland and Ireland to work here in England. Informative thread thanks OP.

I've always lived in SE England but have a Scottish parent, so familiar with lots of these but still learning from this thread.

However I've never heard anyone in my part of England say pleat your hair, it's always plait pronounced plat.

Squint gets used occasionally but not frequently, I think most would know what it meant from it's used with eyes.

How come? is widely used down here too.

You would still have been able to do that if you were 16 now. Leaving school at the end of year 11 and going to college is a very popular way to remain in education and there is nothing to stop teenagers doing it now.

I think scheme is the same in England too?

No, it isn't @Orangesandlemons77. I had never heard of it being called a scheme until I read Shuggie Bain.

Do Scottish schools have longer lunch breaks? DD had 40 minutes which wasn't long enough for anyone to walk up to Tesco and back. The school said that shorter lunch breaks gave the pupils less chance to be disruptive. They also had full timetables until 6th form, so no free periods up to age 16.

Scraps or Crispy bits is apparently a southern England thing

No, we have them in Yorkshire as well @RainbowZebraWarrior
We don't have skin on fish and chips here in Yorkshire.

I'm loving this thread BTW.

@Tarkan are you in the North East? Still traumatised by my old boss saying he had a "wee jobbie" for me... Definitely not a central/west coast usage!!!!

Nobody has mentioned "skelf" yet, I never realised skelf was Scots till am English mate queried it (as in I've got a skelf in my finger - a splinter).

SE England - we used to call the cinema 'the pictures' when I was young.

We 'plat' our hair.