Death penalty.

[CurlewKate]

Why don't they use an anaesthetic? Then do whatever barbaric thing they're going to.

If a vet can PTS a pet almost instantly I don't understand why a doctor or executioner can't do the same?

For those who say could you administer a lethal injection. Yep, if a person has committed vile crime and been found guilty by a fair trial I could do it. I'd be thinking of the victims, the person had killed.

And how would you feel if that person was later found to be the victim of a miscarriage of justice?

With DNA evidence and often cameras showing a person actually committing a crime very very unlikely. Also many people admit their crimes and plead guilty. Modern forensic evidence has improved so much it's not like the bad old days. For example the person in Nottingham who murdered 3 people and attempted to murder 3 others was caught red handed on camera. His own brother also gave evidence about a phone call he'd had with him a couple of days before saying he might not be around after a few days. Also DNA evidence.

@caringcarer

Do you not think every jury that has ever sent someone to their death has thought the case beyond doubt? This doesn't change with better technology. Corruption, false witness and technical error will always exist. And the Nottingham case was a severely mentally ill person insufficiently monitored by the authorities. Where do you draw the line on executing the mentally ill?

When they show evidence of intent like planning the crime. Gathering weapons, hiding on the shadows until such a time he could attack and kill.

Malcolm Alexander spent nearly 38 years in prison before he was exonerated in 2018 after DNA evidence that finally cleared him of the crime. He is now 63. He was charged with aggravated rape.

The article is long but an interesting read on how badly they can eff things up.
STATE OF LOUISIANA v. MALCOLM ALEXANDER (2023) | FindLaw

"Over the course of the next few months B.N. was shown hundreds of photographs of potential perpetrators, but never saw anyone that resembled the perpetrator. A few weeks after the occurrence, B.N. called the investigating officer, Detective O'Neil Denoux, claiming that she had seen a man from a distance working at a car dealership whom she believed could be the perpetrator. When subsequently shown a photo of this man, she did not identify him as the perpetrator."

https://innocenceproject.org/a-mistaken-identification-sent-him-to-prison-for-38-years-but-he-never-gave-up-fighting-for-freedom/

Just found this article about Malcolm Alexander 😞

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying The state then executes as a means to protect itself

The state isn't protecting itself, the prisoner is already behind bars. The state is already well protected from the person due to be executed.

State execution is vengeance, pure and simple.

It’s protection in a rather more general sense: deterrence (which I personally think is nonsense, but others don’t) and protection of confidence in the criminal justice system (which again I don’t agree requires death as a penalty, but others disagree). Like it or not, ‘punishment’ and ‘deterrence’ are both statutory aims of sentencing in the UK.

There is also the issue of escape and release. Repeat killings and sex offences by released prisoners are hardly unknown. We could lock these people up until they die, of course.

But if sentencing is all about vengeance, why do we not think that locking someone up for forever, isn’t unacceptable vengeance? On one view execution is just bringing forward the result of a whole life tariff.

I am at pains to say that I disagree with capital punishment. But I don’t think its proponents deserve to be labelled all sorts of horrible things, including being immoral.

How do you know that any particular case is BEYOND DOUBT?

But aren't you just creating more victims - the family and loved ones of the prisoner?

really? because reports of the execution the other day say he was thrashing around and took 22 minutes to die.

It's well recognized that the death penalty is no deterrent.

I'm not sure a prisoner likely to be sentenced to death would be released under another system.

I think those purporting to support the death penalty tend to do so from an emotional rather than well reasoned point of view.

The percentage point of US death row executions where the person was innocent is low (3-4% I would guess) of course it absolutely shouldn’t be happening & it’s horrific c for those families.

that is 3 or 4 people in every 100. That's one kid out of your child's class of 30.

Its nearer 6%. So its more than that.

Yikes...that is high.

I agree regarding hanging, Albert Pierrepoint is credited with the fastest hanging on record, that of James Inglis, who was executed on May 8, 1951. Assisted by Syd Dernley, the execution, from start to finish, took only seven seconds. The condemned cell was next to the where the hanging was carried out, the room door was hidden behind a cupboard, the condemned prisoner didnt know it was there. They'd entre the cell, moved the cupboard, waked them through, restrained, hood over head, rope around neck and opened the trap door, all done in a few seconds.

Have you noticed in countries where punishment for crimes is very harsh, there are virtually no crimes committed. If you think having your hand chopped off for theft, people just don't steal. The death penalty would be a huge deterrent to any would be murderers, and paedophiles. The victims are the little children who have been raped or murdered not the family of the perpetrator. Indeed sometimes the family of the perpetrator have contributed to the paedophile or murderers behaviours.

@caringcarer The death penalty would be a huge deterrent to any would be murderers, and paedophiles

That is completely untrue.

@caringcarer

The experience of the USA doesn't back up your totally incorrect claim. Even within the USA, states with capital punishment and stricter sentencing laws have higher crime. Why make things up?

Saudi Arabia scores higher than the UK on a number of global criminality indices. For example: 6.23 versus 5.75 for the UK. https://ocindex.net/country/saudi_arabia

How do you feel about Ethel and Julius Rosenberg?

I assume your point is that the Rosenbergs were wrongly convicted and therefore wrongly executed.

The Rosenbergs were undoubtedly guilty. The death penalty was available for espionage when they were convicted (maybe it still is in the US), which they knew.

Passing nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union in 1950s America wasn’t exactly the smartest thing to do.

All that said, I still think neither the Rosenbergs nor anyone else should be executed. The UK didn’t execute Klaus Fuchs.

I'm fairly sure Julius was guilty, Ethel, I'm, not so sure.

The evidence against her was quite weak, she seem, at most, to have typed up information and been an accessory.

The death penalty seems harsh for that.

Her brother gave evidence against her that was probably perjury and he has said he did that because they were threatening his wife.

So was it beyond doubt?