Death penalty.

[CurlewKate]

Why don't they use an anaesthetic? Then do whatever barbaric thing they're going to.

Interesting.

I would argue that you focus on the process rather than the implementation of the process in the first place.

If someone committed a crime in the situation as you describe, was caught, found guilty and sentenced to death - and such sentence was perfectly carried out - I agree that person has very little to complain about. But I still believe their death would be immoral.

I believe it is morally wrong for the state to have a process by which it requires the death penalty for any crimes at all. The state does not (should not) suppose to own the right to live or die of its citizens.

And "citizens support it" doesn't make it moral - there's plenty of crazy things that the majority of people would vote for if given the option that are morally wrong!

Yes, thankfully.

I see you've happily accepted that innocent people would definitely be executed as a rest of your disdain for human life.

You're sick

🥱

Ah, I see you're a pizza cutter - all edge and no point. I see how you can recognise scum.

When I was a child I watched a film, no idea what it was, where a murderer was sentenced to death and the judge said alot including about this being done in the name of "the people" which I assume meant all citizens. I immediately thought I didn't want anyone killed in my name and I've never felt any different.

The other film that haunted me for quite a while as a child was James Cagney being dragged kicking and screaming to the electric chair in Angels with Dirty Faces, I thought it was horrific.

The third film, again watched as a child of maybe 13 or 14 was a WWI film where a young man, not terribly bright and terribly frightened deserted from the front line. The bit that stuck in my mind was the priest who walked with him as he went to his execution, he kept him calmer by praying the Rosary with him. Every time the young man started to lose it the priest would very firmly start the Hail Mary. It broke my heart watching that scene.

The question of what if someone I loved was killed. I can imagine in the moment of seeing a loved one dead and the murderer standing there with the weapon in his hand I could lose it and kill him. Cold blooded premeditated is different and I wouldn't kill them then.

I suspect we largely agree. But the problem for me is the principle behind saying “taking a life can never be justified unless there’s an exception, and the state can never have an exception after catching, trying and convicting a person.”

It would be an horrendous crime to force someone into a little room and keep them there against their will for ten years. But we don’t say it’s immoral for the state to do that after properly conducted legal process.

It’s often said in anti-death penalty debates that it’s a worse punishment for the convicted to keep them locked up for decades than is a swift despatch. And I agree with that. In which case, why isn’t it just as immoral or even more immoral to imprison for many, many years?

The main reasons I oppose the death penalty are irreversible punishment for what may be shown to be wrongful conviction, that it’s an admission of hopelessness in the face of serious offending and that it’s a grim and demeaning task. But I claim no greater morality for my view than others who don’t agree.

It’s just my opinion and I’m sorry if you are offended by it. I’m not asking you to agree with me. Pizza cutter like that 😁

I'm just about old enough to remember Ruth Ellis being executed, I didn't understand but I can remember my mother and some other women sitting at our kitchen table mourning her and what had happened to her and thinking of how her children would cope with the knowledge.

This.

I don't believe it's the State's job to invoke 'justice' or retribution. I DO think it's the State's job to make sure that killers are locked up and prevented from ever harming anyone else though and I would actually like to see the UK handing out 100 year sentences (as they do in the US). Obviously they're just symbolic numbers but I think there's something helpful about knowing the killer will never, ever see the light of day again.

Depriving someone of their freedom is enough. We don't have to kill them as well. It makes us no better.

No one (here in America) is arguing that the death penalty is a deterrent. We know it’s not. It’s really not about that! It’s about exterminating bad seeds, that’s it.

Why? Because I have no issue with rapists & murderers having their life ended?

@howaboutapartysong i’m also wondering why @Product3257 is sick?

Because isn’t a rapist/murderer sick for, well, raping an innocent person & ruining their & their families life? Fuck me, sticking up for the most heinous of society.

i also think they should be executed. Someone rapes my DD, I want their life ruined too. Like mine & my DD’s would be. Shame on you for this.

You do realise that those of us who are against the death penalty aren't in favour of rape and murder aren't you? I still think those crimes are disgusting. I just don't think the government should be allowed to kill people.

It is possible to be against the death penalty but also against rape and murder.

Nowhere near as barbaric as to what he did to a teenage woman. Him and his mates taping and shooting her and then burying her alive. he got off lightly

Yes I know this. It’s, of course, fine for you (& others) to not be in favour if it but I wouldn’t call you sick for it. It’s your belief. However, there are some of us in favour of the death penalty & that’s ok too.

👏👏

He deserved it

"However, there are some of us in favour of the death penalty & that’s ok too."

No it isn't.

when conversations around the death penalty come up I often think of the sentiment expressed in quotes like this

"The death penalty is not about whether people deserve to die for the crimes they commit. The real question of capital punishment in this country is, Do we deserve to kill?" -Bryan Stevenson

Interesting to read upthread about the executioner who seemed to regret it. I can’t imagine the trauma he feels but I wonder why he kept at it for 17 years?

Another issue with the death penalty is it isn’t applied equally. We live in societies filled with bias and prejudice that already results in inequality in how prisons sentences are applied which is bad enough. But when that same bias affects death penalty decisions it’s just horrific.

Most people who kill or rape aren’t given the death penalty. It’s only a select few who are singled out for it based on being victims of bias, bad luck or not being able to afford a great lawyer.

Also a lot of people who commit horrendous crimes had appalling starts to life. No that doesn’t excuse what they did but it’s sad that those same adults who had dismal childhoods are more likely to be sentenced to death than the kid from the supportive and stable family who grows up and does something terrible.
And having a bad start to life makes you more likely to commit certain crimes anyway.

And by bad start I’m talking about kids who have been repeatedly abused by adults and neglected by their parents etc. I do believe in most cases life should mean life though.

Yes, yes it is ok because it's a belief. You have yours, we have ours.