Page 7 | Kylie Jenner just can't win

34weekmess · 2024-01-26T15:18:09+00:00

Can she ? If she is all done up full face of make up, she's fake, a bad influence on young girls, full of filler. If she's toned down, stripped back, a natural make up look she is then criticised for her "botched face" She might have alot of filler in her face (a lot of girls do these days) but I personally think she looks gorgeous in these recent photos from pfw. So what is she meant to be media ?

EndOfIt · 26/01/2024 16:45

I would expect a grown woman to not start threads that they know will encourage others to be nasty about another woman. Now you’re pretending you’re the victim. You’re not!

You’re pregnant and hormonal, I would ask for this horrible thread to be deleted and go and relax.

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 16:45

34weekmess · 26/01/2024 16:43

What for though ? For calling someone gorgeous? 🤦‍♀️

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Because of the way you interact with people here, and the way you react. It's not normal. You're soon to have a baby, you can't be stressing yourself out about Kylie Jenner. Chill and get help, I'm saying this nicely.

EndOfIt · 26/01/2024 16:52

Because of the way you interact with people here, and the way you react. It's not normal. You're soon to have a baby, you can't be stressing yourself out about Kylie Jenner. Chill and get help, I'm saying this nicely.

I agree. The way you have interacted is problematic. Starting a thread that you knew would be divisive, then getting defensive, playing the victim, saying you’re being bullied, flouncing. It’s weird.

hazandduck · 26/01/2024 16:53

Haven’t read all the posts but sure I am joining a sea of posters in saying: she’s a multi-millionaire before she’s even thirty, pretty sure she’s winning.

ISpyNoPlumPie · 26/01/2024 16:54

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 16:40

Do you know what, slight tangent, but I kind of disagree. We are not just brains in jars, we are physical creatures and have some control over our appearance just as we have some control (and not total control) over our minds and characters. As a mother and family member, I compliment my loved ones and this is part of the way I show physical affection and let them know I love them inside and out, sensory and not just theoretical. I also think it's nice to scrub up well as we are all part of the visual landscape and might as well give each other something nice to look at and feel like we're making an effort for one another. And... It can be fun - for me, it's a little bit of artistic expression that I wouldn't normally get.

That's not at all the same thing as being valued only on appearance - encouraging cosmetic surgery, feeling pressured to look a certain way, spending hours getting ready, wanting to look overtly sexy all the time, overlooking people's other qualities, making inappropriate comments and so on. (i.e. the bad side of appearances, slightly rambling list but you get my drift)

There's a balance to be struck, but what you seem to be arguing there feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. IME not being told she's beautiful growing up can actually spur a girl to "achieve" beauty at all costs, which is a waste of her energy... I'd rather a girl grow up being told she's beautiful.

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Really? Just a girl though not a boy? Would you tell a son he is pretty/beautiful? We don’t agree, that’s fine, but if I may share why I feel like this - well I always thought I would be incredibly positively reinforcing around appearance when I had a child. And then I had a child, a little 4yo who asked me “mummy, am I pretty?”. And it made me so fucking sad but I didn’t know why.

So I tried to find out - is it better to be positively reinforcing or is it better to not focus on appearance at all? Well there has not been a huge amount of research in this area but the studies that have been done tend to show that complimenting someone’s appearance makes them
scrutinise themselves and then give lower self-esteem ratings. And what happens when your child goes through puberty? Their face and body change, they don’t feel good about themselves, does telling them “oh it’s ok, mum thinks you are beautiful” make them feel better? Has that ever worked for you?

I'm not right, I’m just sharing my perspective. Parenting is a bit of an experiment, just trying my best (aren’t we all) the repair some of the harm and damage I experienced growing up.

SuperDopper · 26/01/2024 16:55

Look at her photos before she had all the work done. She has undoubtedly destroyed her face. Make up or no make up, it doesn’t change how superficial she and her family are.

fonfusedm · 26/01/2024 16:55

Maybe I will. I just don't get what I've done wrong, I don't know Kylie personally so it's not like I can comment on anything other than what she looks like or how I might perceive certain things in her life that she chooses to share. I haven't started a thread to be nasty, I'm 9 months pregnant and bored at home !! I just wanted to point to how the media are horrible to us women

Respectfully you need a hobby or something

fonfusedm · 26/01/2024 16:56

For some reason the Eminem song 'Stan' is playing in my head....

ILikeDinosaurs · 26/01/2024 16:57

SuperDopper · 26/01/2024 16:55

Look at her photos before she had all the work done. She has undoubtedly destroyed her face. Make up or no make up, it doesn’t change how superficial she and her family are.

She's looking Michael Jackson and she's only 26.

AhhSlippedOnMahBeansRitaaa · 26/01/2024 17:01

Is this your first baby OP? In a few weeks you'll have sooooo much more to worry about!

EddieHoweBlackandWhiteArmy · 26/01/2024 17:06

My husband showed me some pictures of her, not in a sneering way, but he said, and I agree, that she has had so much plastic surgery there is no way of knowing her age. She could be 30/40/50.
I do find it all bit toxic but I’m not going to comment on someone’s appearance, do what you want. Live and let live!

EndOfIt · 26/01/2024 17:10

@EddieHoweBlackandWhiteArmy Kylie isn’t there to please your husband thankfully. I doubt she’d care what a random woman’s husband on mumsnet thinks of her. I wonder why he was looking at photos of her anyway... Sounds like a nice bloke you’ve got there. 🤮

peachgreen · 26/01/2024 17:10

I actually think she looks beautiful with that low-key make-up. I agree she looks kind of... ageless thanks to the surgery, but hopefully this is her embracing a more natural look.

Brawcolli · 26/01/2024 17:12

Op, you’ve unfortunately attracted a bunch of wee losers who take great pleasure in ripping any thread they deem ‘wrong’ apart. You can tell by the way specific posters keep replying to you that this is some extremely sad hobby for them. I’d just ignore them personally, they’re just looking for a reaction.

MNHQ

PipMumsnet · 26/01/2024 17:12

Hello everyone, this thread is generating a lot of reports so we wanted to ask posters to please bear our Talk guidelines in mind when posting - particularly the part about no personal attacks. We have had to delete a few of those already.
Peace and love,
MNHQ

Mumsnet's Talk Guidelines | Mumsnet

A guide to using Mumsnet's discussion boards (Talk), including netiquette, rules of use and how to stay on the right side of the moderating team!

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/netiquette

Brianiac · 26/01/2024 17:13

fonfusedm · 26/01/2024 16:55

Maybe I will. I just don't get what I've done wrong, I don't know Kylie personally so it's not like I can comment on anything other than what she looks like or how I might perceive certain things in her life that she chooses to share. I haven't started a thread to be nasty, I'm 9 months pregnant and bored at home !! I just wanted to point to how the media are horrible to us women

Respectfully you need a hobby or something

Frankly, none of us are utilising out time well by being on this site, no point acting superior to op😂

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 17:14

ISpyNoPlumPie · 26/01/2024 16:54

Really? Just a girl though not a boy? Would you tell a son he is pretty/beautiful? We don’t agree, that’s fine, but if I may share why I feel like this - well I always thought I would be incredibly positively reinforcing around appearance when I had a child. And then I had a child, a little 4yo who asked me “mummy, am I pretty?”. And it made me so fucking sad but I didn’t know why.

So I tried to find out - is it better to be positively reinforcing or is it better to not focus on appearance at all? Well there has not been a huge amount of research in this area but the studies that have been done tend to show that complimenting someone’s appearance makes them
scrutinise themselves and then give lower self-esteem ratings. And what happens when your child goes through puberty? Their face and body change, they don’t feel good about themselves, does telling them “oh it’s ok, mum thinks you are beautiful” make them feel better? Has that ever worked for you?

I'm not right, I’m just sharing my perspective. Parenting is a bit of an experiment, just trying my best (aren’t we all) the repair some of the harm and damage I experienced growing up.

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It's interesting to mull over, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. My experience is much more girl-focused (having been one and my current family composition) so I had girls on mind rather than boys, also due to the subject of this thread and the focus on women here. I don't have a problem with the idea of complimenting a boy's appearance - I suppose I'd probably be less likely to because I'd expect him to perhaps be embarrassed by it... So yes, I suppose maybe I do expect a girl to want or need that kind of compliment more.

Does it help a self-conscious teen to think "mum says I'm beautiful"? I would say yes, I do think it does. It's one small thing to hold onto, at a time when your self-perception is in a state of upheaval. It won't be their focus - they'll be more conscious of wanting to look like the pretty girls at school or bloody Kylie Jenner - but I do think it's a good baseline to have.

I also think (sorry if this seems nitpicky, I'm just thinking aloud) that compliments on character traits could also have unintended effects... e.g. "you're so courageous" could make the child wary of showing a more vulnerable side, etc. I'm not suggesting this has been the effect on your children or mine, I think it's all just part of a bigger picture and will depend on so much else. I do think that praising effort rather than intrinsic traits is something that we should emphasise... But not exclusively. (Edited to add: because then the child might feel they're only worthy if they're trying or working... Haha, what a minefield!)

I agree it's all an experiment and we are all trying to repair the problems in our own upbringings, for sure.

ILikeDinosaurs · 26/01/2024 17:16

AhhSlippedOnMahBeansRitaaa · 26/01/2024 17:01

Is this your first baby OP? In a few weeks you'll have sooooo much more to worry about!

@AhhSlippedOnMahBeansRitaaa Jeez, are these their original faces? Which one is Kim? I can't even tell!

CactusMactus · 26/01/2024 17:22

She's 26? She looks really hot for a middle aged woman with lots of work done...

StaunchMomma · 26/01/2024 17:25

She already won. She was born into a life of privilege and was a billionaire in her own right before she turned 20.

The press are arseholes to women. It's not just her.

ISpyNoPlumPie · 26/01/2024 17:30

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 17:14

It's interesting to mull over, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. My experience is much more girl-focused (having been one and my current family composition) so I had girls on mind rather than boys, also due to the subject of this thread and the focus on women here. I don't have a problem with the idea of complimenting a boy's appearance - I suppose I'd probably be less likely to because I'd expect him to perhaps be embarrassed by it... So yes, I suppose maybe I do expect a girl to want or need that kind of compliment more.

Does it help a self-conscious teen to think "mum says I'm beautiful"? I would say yes, I do think it does. It's one small thing to hold onto, at a time when your self-perception is in a state of upheaval. It won't be their focus - they'll be more conscious of wanting to look like the pretty girls at school or bloody Kylie Jenner - but I do think it's a good baseline to have.

I also think (sorry if this seems nitpicky, I'm just thinking aloud) that compliments on character traits could also have unintended effects... e.g. "you're so courageous" could make the child wary of showing a more vulnerable side, etc. I'm not suggesting this has been the effect on your children or mine, I think it's all just part of a bigger picture and will depend on so much else. I do think that praising effort rather than intrinsic traits is something that we should emphasise... But not exclusively. (Edited to add: because then the child might feel they're only worthy if they're trying or working... Haha, what a minefield!)

I agree it's all an experiment and we are all trying to repair the problems in our own upbringings, for sure.

Edited

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I’m enjoying the discussion although I should go play with said kids!! In a bit…

I have experience of girls and boys so that definitely made me think about the differences in how I am bringing them up. My DH didn’t agree with me either and wanted to tell DD she was beautiful. I said - well you must tell DS as well and it made him think about why he didn’t (well him and the whole of society didn't) think it was important to tell a boy he is beautiful.

Your second point, I feel like the protective thing here is unconditional love NOT saying you are beautiful. Maybe a child who feels love can more easily navigate the horrors of growing up. Personally, if someone told me that I was beautiful but I didn’t feel beautiful, I would feel lied to, and hurt (just me??).

Finally you are right about effort/perseverance and not labelling. In truth I try to say “you showed courage carrying on with x, even when it was hard”, (so specific comment on specific behaviour) rather than “you are so brave and courageous” (vague comment, label). You’ll be surprised to hear (given the length of my posts) that I was trying to be quick and lazily demonstrating that I do praise my kids just not for the outside of their bodies. So quick and succinct I am!!

fonfusedm · 26/01/2024 17:38

@Brianiac my point wasn't about MNs usage! It's the way the OP has reacted to the thread....

ILikeDinosaurs · 26/01/2024 17:48

Rewis · 26/01/2024 15:51

Kardashians can't win. Kim is a useless celebrity who does nothing with her life. Then she starts to study law and gets into activism. She's rhe rich asshole who took a study place who actually needs it and she's wasting her time with activism csuse who gives a fuck what she thinks.

Kim's "activism" = hanging out with the likes of the Trumps.

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 18:59

ISpyNoPlumPie · 26/01/2024 17:30

I’m enjoying the discussion although I should go play with said kids!! In a bit…

I have experience of girls and boys so that definitely made me think about the differences in how I am bringing them up. My DH didn’t agree with me either and wanted to tell DD she was beautiful. I said - well you must tell DS as well and it made him think about why he didn’t (well him and the whole of society didn't) think it was important to tell a boy he is beautiful.

Your second point, I feel like the protective thing here is unconditional love NOT saying you are beautiful. Maybe a child who feels love can more easily navigate the horrors of growing up. Personally, if someone told me that I was beautiful but I didn’t feel beautiful, I would feel lied to, and hurt (just me??).

Finally you are right about effort/perseverance and not labelling. In truth I try to say “you showed courage carrying on with x, even when it was hard”, (so specific comment on specific behaviour) rather than “you are so brave and courageous” (vague comment, label). You’ll be surprised to hear (given the length of my posts) that I was trying to be quick and lazily demonstrating that I do praise my kids just not for the outside of their bodies. So quick and succinct I am!!

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It's like the old saying goes, "if I had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter"! I know the feeling, my post was the same 😅

Totally agree that at the root, it's feeling unconditionally loved that matters. For me, I think part of that is feeling loved inside and out. Hard to unpick, I suppose, but the way I intend those sorts of compliments is "every part of you is lovable and precious the way it is", rather than "you rank highly among your peers on this important measure" if you see what I mean.

ISpyNoPlumPie · 26/01/2024 19:18

MarshaMarshaMarshmellow · 26/01/2024 18:59

It's like the old saying goes, "if I had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter"! I know the feeling, my post was the same 😅

Totally agree that at the root, it's feeling unconditionally loved that matters. For me, I think part of that is feeling loved inside and out. Hard to unpick, I suppose, but the way I intend those sorts of compliments is "every part of you is lovable and precious the way it is", rather than "you rank highly among your peers on this important measure" if you see what I mean.

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Yes, and I think the distinction you make is I love you for who you are, you have inherent value just for being you, not I love you because you are beautiful on the outside and you looking like thus is important.

It’s very nuanced and I find myself having even more nuanced conversations with my children as they get older and want to look the same as “all their friends”. That’s really hard too. What do you say about valuing your appearance without venerating it? Who knows… I think we’ve gone off track 😁 but it’s always nice to have a reasoned discussion!!