> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

@MidnightPatrol are you both earning over £100k? Why cannot you increase your pension contributions?!

I’ve asked a couple of times too

Not sure why no response

@hanschristmassolo @lunarleap There should definitely be more help for twin parents. Even more so if spontaneous twins and second pregnancy onwards. I haven’t come across any aside from a £500 sure start payment or the odd 10-20% via Twins Trust.

@Jurassictrex The government should allow working parents who have contributed x years of NI contributions to pay registered nurseries or childcare providers out of their gross income. Akin to the workplace nursery scheme but without jumping through the hoops you have to in order to get it/taking the risk that you’ve exploited a loophole and could receive a massive bill in the future.

Any employers that are currently able to offer enhanced maternity leave of six months should extend this to nine months so there isn’t a gap between earnings and hours (for those eligible).

Mothers returning to work should automatically be offered the option of their same job position four days a week (with a workload/coverage adjustment), not five for the year after they return to work at 10% less of their base salary, not 20% (this could help those who might be the wrong side of 100k with an older child) with the same package/benefits/bonus/promotion opportunity. After the first year back at work, the option to increase to five days/old salary should be on the table or they would take another 10% base salary cut and remain on four days prorate at 80%.

The attitude towards having children and the effect it can have on a woman’s career needs to change. That being said, the current mortgage rates are likely to be more responsible for a working parent to stay at home at the moment.

@EasternStandard@Teder OP is unlikely to disclose their salary but as it’s been highlighted multiple times and not acknowledged as a possible solution, I would presume both salaries are more £150k+ each then £101k.

I am asking because it can be financially viable to find a way to drop below £100k - even if it’s reducing by half a day - on salaries around £110k or even more. She needs proper financial advice . OP asked how people do it, well, this is a common way how people manage the childcare years.

If they’re both huge huge earners, then this thread is just a whine and she doesn’t really want solutions. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t you realise we need children? The barriers to women working and having multiple children doesn’t just impact the privileged. It impacts our economy. These are the workers of the future that will pay our pensions. By women not being able to work they are disadvantaged for life, which impacts those same kids.

But I’m saying women and men can work while having children just with slight concessions. Such as a slightly larger age gap, or working part time for a short couple of years…
im not saying people shouldn’t have children or that they shouldn’t work…I am literally pregnant with my third child and I work…😂
however, I haven’t had three children in 3-5 years because I knew I couldn’t afford that. In fact my age gaps are very large, not for everyone. But it’s a concession I/we have made to enable us to have 3 children and still live the life we want to.

We have a falling birth rate. You should be able to have the kids you can support when you want them. Some countries PAY women via the tax system to have kids. We are deterring them. I’m not convinced we’ve got it right.

They aren't 'slight' concessions for everyone though. Working part time isn't possible at my level, it would undo much of the progress I've made over the years and reduce all of the flexibility I currently have.

I planned to have 2 children close in age because I was 35 with my first but also because I knew that I wouldn't want to go back to the baby stage again so a bigger gap wouldn't be possible, I'd just be one and done. 2 children has become 3 children due to twins, it definitely isn't my ideal situation to have 3 under 2 but thankfully it is temporary, as are the large nursery fees for 3.

@Flamesatmytoes We definitely don’t have it right and it’s such a shame to have to constantly find workarounds in order to have children and maintain a decent career.

@SouthLondonMum22 Same as you, unplanned twins in my second pregnancy. Absolutely not the plan and could very easily put me out of work with three under 18 months.

Enjoy a nanny or childminder most are higher qualified than the 16 year olds they have at nurseries.

Looks like a similar age gap too., DS will be 16 months when they are born.

I don't know if this is the case with what you earn, but do you qualify for the tax free childcare account? It saves you about 500 a quarter, I think per child. Not much in the scheme of your fees but its something. I only have one and earn significantly less than you (but still classed as well) so I don't know if you do as i only checked my circumstances, but worth a look.

But equally, if they live in an expensive area of London with a London price mortgage (if she's 35 I presume she's not had it decades, unless she was gifted an enormous deposit, saving will have taken time), then reducing a salary may not be an option to get free hours of childcare. It may mean mortgage payments are no longer affordable.

honest suggestion is to put the oldest into an independent day school as soon as you can, which will likely be cheaper than nursery fees!
Knew a few parents who did this as the private schools offered free wrap around care and it worked out far cheaper for the child to be in 7:30-8:30am before school care, school 8:30-4ish, then after school care 4-5:30pm, than the children being in a local nursery 8am-5pm 5 days a week, and meant the kids had access to sports and clubs within the school too.

A quick google search tells me to fees for Thomas' Battersea (when Prince William and Kate's kids went previously), for a child in reception is under 8k a term, which covers three and a bit months!

Like you my DD earns over £100k so no free hours etc. had her 1st at 34, 2nd at 36. Works compressed hours and uses grandparents for 2 days childcare. Because of the nature of both their jobs they found having the 2nd child an absolute nightmare once DD returned off Mat leave. But they’re only paying 1 lot of nursery fees now as the eldest has started school.
Realistically, you can’t have it all! Huge salary, big mortgage, cheap childcare, being a present parent. Some things have to be compromised on.

Where is your ‘funnily enough’ that dads leave their kids and go out to work, missing massive amounts of quality time with them that women do get? Sounds like you’re only interested in compromises you have to make and again oblivious to what others do. Unless you value work above time with kids?

@Soontobe60

I disagree actually.

I think the situation could be vastly improved if the government made it cheaper for people to access childcare.

Let’s give the nanny example. The cost to the employer is £53k for a take home of £34,910 - or £2,900pcm.

So between tax, NI and pension contributions the nanny costs an additional £19k - out of an already taxed income.

Then let’s this about what kind of income you need to afford that £53k expenditure on a nanny… probably need to earn £100k just to cover the nanny cost. That income is probably taxed at 40-60%.

So for a £100k of income you can pay out ~30% to the nanny. Give or take a bit that’s accrued as pension. HMRC gets the rest.

Ditto on nurseries, albeit I can’t do the numbers as accurately as I don’t know the cost of running one.

The situation could be vastly improved for both parents and those employed in the childcare sector through tax breaks for people paying for preschool care.

Definitely not cheaper as then I would have several weeks of holidays to contend with too…!

You have my sympathy as I had the same issues about 10 years ago. I see nothing has changed. Why other countries manage this - cheaper, subsidised childcare so women can work - and we can’t I’ll never know.

It’s barely anything for nursery care in France, Germany, Sweden. Certainly not thousands per month. We have such a short sighted government who inevitably are losing very talented and qualified women out of the job market

Do dads who work full time value work above time with kids or does that just apply to mums?

I value both. I work FT but still enjoy plenty of quality time with DS because I can be very flexible. DH can say the same, it doesn't and shouldn't only apply to me because I'm a woman.

But in this case BOTH want to work those hours and BOTH will not compromise.

So the fees are what the fees are. For that level of childcare.

For two children, where the OP has said maternity leave is a burden.

This is all about financial choice, not child welfare.

And that's wonderful, if you have that ability.

But I cannot think of a single family who operate like that BOTH parents.

Those who have a parent who works away for example, is month on month off, so six months at home.

50 hours a week childcare. School doesn't start till OP 38. Says she's 35. So what's the child. One or two? How many hours a week is a child awake at that age? Or a day?

@Soontobe60 and many others have said you simply cannot have it all. Or you can, but you pay for it. Then like others have said stick them into boarding school and be done.

And I don't think this is about women working and struggles. This OP. This is about both parents wanting to do that and both unwilling or unable to compromise anywhere.

So many options have been suggested. Nope. Just cheaper childcare. For the most precious thing in the world.

I would be interested to hear from anyone in this position who is not riding that golden train. Unwell children, disabilities , serious health conditions, separation anxiety, elderly parents to care for, community responsibilities, etc etc etc.

@lmhj1 going to nursery full time is hardly unusual.

And it’s not a ‘child welfare’ issue for them to be going five days a week (!).

My child currently goes ~8-5 days I’m in office. So 9 hours a day. Less if I’m WFH. Some flexibility in that is important to accommodate issues with commute etc. Which of course you pay for - I pay by the day not the hour.

They are a perfectly happy, well-balanced child with a great attitude towards us, others etc. They love nursery - all their friends are there, they do all sorts of messy play daily,

This is the norm for a lot of families.

As I have explained, the issue is the personal cost post-tax, not the sum paid to the staff (who are undoubtedly underpaid). This makes it extremely expensive to work.

I, like any parent, am coping with issue of illness, parents, separation anxiety, sleepless nights etc. There is no ‘golden train’, whatever that means.

I can think of several families where both parents work full time, it certainly isn't unusual in my area. We're one of those families and DS is far from the only child who attends nursery full time.

Nursery is by day, not hour. DS' nursery is open 7am-6:30pm which is what I pay for because he is considered full time but 8-5 is a more typical day for him, early pick ups when it's possible as I'm able to plan my diary around it as much as I can or DH when it's his turn to pick up.