> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

Dad can do it too. It doesn't HAVE to be mum.

I do feel there should be a little extra help for those with twins, perhaps a loan from the government to match what you spend on one child so it be spread out.

@saffy2 I think you’re getting a bit carried away there.

Where have I complained about childcare providers being paid a living wage?

Where did I describe this thread as ‘campaigning’?

I don’t think there’s any need to be so unpleasant tbh.

It almost always is mum though. It's the expectation.

Exactly.

Childcare workers aren't paid enough yet childcare costs are so high.

@hanschristmassolo ouch!

It’s outrageous there isn’t more help for parents of twins. One of my friends is in this situation at the moment.

The U.K. does seem remarkably ‘behind’ on the issue of supporting childcare provision and parents of young children.

At the point of 30 hours you will go back to funding from your income? What did you tell the bank - did you give them the real purpose of the loan?

Then those expectations need to be challenged.

Absolutely.

I do feel for you OP and judging from all the comments this does get a reaction. we would have around the same fees for 2 children. it was always an easy decision for us as DH is a much lower earner in shift work (he has a job but not a career) and luckily we can afford to survive on my salary so he would be a SAHD.

I assume you're in London. I don't have any advice as short term pain for long term gain for your careers- apart from saying I am disgusted that having 2 children is a luxury. it's just not fair at all, and I do not like these comments saying you have time to wait. why should you? i have no other family so it's important to have more than one. I am just annoyed for you and sympathize x

What do you actually want the government to do OP? In an ideal world? They are introducing the hours from I think 9 months old. Yes it costs money to pay someone to look after your child while you work.

Childcare workers aren't paid anywhere near enough though even when parents are paying through the nose.

To be fair, I'd happily pay more if it meant childcare workers are paid better but that isn't what happens.

I’ve noticed that all the Mums at school with 3 or more children don’t work. Apart from the money side it must just become unmanageable with school runs, play dates, after school activities etc.

The low pay is why so many nurseries are struggling to recruit.

You are not considering the fact that it is easier for sibling to stick together the nearer in age they are!

Where does all the money go? Childcare is so extortionately expensive and yet the staff are paid such low wages. I know there is rent, energy and insurance etc to cover but the figures just don’t stack up.

When will the 30hrs kick in from nine months old? That seems helpful but what if early years workers can no longer make a living then and nurseries close? One poster was indicating that the high fees charged for younger children and babies effectively subsidise the funded hours by balancing things out to nearer a living wage. What will happen when there is no option to charge parents more before the funded hours start?

What a mess.

This comment certainly sums up the bizarre attitude to childcare of some cuckoos that it’s some sort of right to have cheap childcare and just such an insult to have to care for your own children, dahling. God help these kids.

I don’t know if it’s possible to express my anger that you assume that ‘literally every’ family has to afford childcare. Being a SAHM is very often the best option for children and is, in fact, how it is supposed to work. Expecting a full career for both parents is fine, but don’t expect not to pay for fobbing off your kids on someone else. Although of course it’s mainly the kids that pay usually.

No one has said or implied anything close to that it's insulting to care for your own children but it is absolutely true that it shouldn't be difficult for mothers (because it is almost always mothers who give up their careers or go part time) to work full time with 2 children.

It isn’t ‘difficult for mothers’. It’s the choice of anyone who has a child how they are going to be cared for. You aren’t ‘entitled’ to a career. You make your life choices. I’m so sorry trhat it’s come as a surprise to so many here that childcare is a commitment. Either way.

Why should it be easy though? If you work full time with 2 kids it's bound to be hard. Very little down time. Tiredness. Even if there's two of you it will be hard work.

It's impossible to "have it all"

It would certainly be a start if these ridiculous people had an ounce of humility about their privilege and any realisation that they should be caring for the children themselves in some way.

It should be easier. It's never going to be easy but it shouldn't be made impossible for women either.

But it’s not made impossible. Many families make it work, by going part time during the difficult years for example and then going back up afterwards. Many many many families manage to have it all, by making small concessions such as a larger age gap, part time hours, working different hours, changing careers. And I am not just talking about women.
the issue is that op wants to have it all without making any concessions seemingly. 🤷🏽‍♀️ apart from moaning incessantly that she has to pay the going rate for childcare for two children she is choosing (and refusing to alter the age difference) close together. As have been outlined here on this thread, there is literally loads that she and other famnilies in the position of wanting two children can do (and the majority do do) to have it all/make things easier/make it more affordable.

You might not be talking about just women but the fact is that it is mostly women who end up 'making it work' and often end up sacrificing their careers, earning potential etc which also contributes to things such as the gender pay gap.

It would be different if men sacrificed their careers just as much but funnily enough, that isn't the case so I'm not sure that it is the magical solution and it certainly has negative consequences for women in the workplace.