> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

@IDTM

Thank you.

It really shouldn’t cost so much to pay for childcare so you can work. Having two kids used to be the norm!

It should at least be tax deductible; it is after all an expense incurred to allow you to work.

I think the nanny cost would be about the same, albeit could be reduced via a nanny share. I may look into this - have a couple of local friends who might be open to it.

It’s just such a big number..!

@Sleepygrumpyandnothappy I was wanting to hear from parents in the same position as I am in.

Why shouldn’t I be reaching out to find other parents in the same scenario to talk about our particular experiences?

As for the cost of childcare locally to me vs other parts of London… ok… but that’s the cost here. I can’t sell my house and move to another part of London without incurring expenses of vastly more than any saving in nursery fees.

I had my second 6 months ago and my first baby started nursery 30h in September.I'm not going back to work as such(I was a nanny previously).I'm going to work at the supermarket part time to avoid paying childcare costs.I actually don't like childcare in this country it's so poor and people who look after our kids deserve proper wage.

But you asked how others manage this situation. The reality is that people manage it by

1. having a larger age gap
2. going part time at work
3. stopping work all together
4. changing their job to accommodate children
5. roping in family to help with childcare
6. both parents going part time to accommodate children
7. cut back their lifestyle drastically
8. move house to a different area to accommodate the above
9. downsize to accommodate the above

it is quite rare for people to not do any of the above and instead just pay the extortionate amount. So people are telling you what they have done, and what they would advise people to do. You don’t want to do any of the things suggested (which most other parents do) and so therefore no there is no other option you have to pay the childcare and nobody can advise you anything else. Because the other options are things you won’t consider, and instead are getting annoyed that people are telling you about. Even though, you asked how people manage this scenario. The truthful answer is, most people don’t manage the scenario you are anticipating and are putting yourself into. Most people do one or more of the above scenarios to avoid what you will have.

But every parent would be in the position you are, except they change circumstances so they aren’t in the position you are. And you aren’t willing to change anything to enable the scenario you want of having two children close together. That’s what is making it hard for people to give you any advice. Because we all would have been in your position, and we all made changes to avoid being in your position.

Yes exactly - the OP isn't interested in any of the usual ways people manage this. Which is of course fine, it's her life but it isn't very clear what she wants people to advise when she's ruled out all the usual solutions

It's also a perfectly valid option to take the hit because nursery fees are temporary and it isn't worth sacrificing your career in the long run which is what would happen in some industries. That doesn't mean you can't have a bit of a moan about those costs, especially considering how little nursery workers are paid or ask what other people do and decide it isn't possible or isn't something you want to do.

OP isn't the only one either, DH and I made the same decision and we're having twins this time so the fees will be larger than OP's £4k per month.

I'm not "advising you to wait until your 40s". I'm telling you what I did. I'm saying you're being silly as your first few posts you seemed really stressed, but you're only 35 and you already have a child.

You say that with a big age gap "they will always be too far apart in age to want to do the same things". We've not found this a problem. We do lots of things together as a family. Sometimes we do two separate things but that's always going to be the case with two kids. On Saturdays, dh takes the older one to her swimming lesson and I do something else with the younger one. Even if they were 2 years apart, they would have different swimming lessons at different times due to different abilities. I'm relieved that I'm not needing to juggle two sets of extra curricular activities. The only family I've ever met where the kids genuinely have regular aligning interests is with a 14 month age gap. But even then the kids have different interests and preferences, more so as they get older.

I'm sorry to hear about the people who know who wanted to have children but couldn't. I genuinely do not know "multiple" people who've had this experience. It's rare.

All the best with whatever you decide.

@saffy2 its a farcical situation that an apparently ‘high earner’ should be spending so much for something as simple as childcare so they can work.

Can I not complain about that and hope for some solidarity from parents in the same position?

Most of the suggestions are not relevant for me anyway - as pointed out by @IDTM.

Suggestions:
Having a larger age gap

• Yes I could, but it’s higher risk and drags out the early years

Going part time at work

• Unrealistic in my industry

Stopping work all together

• Short term won’t be able to afford day to day
• Long term impact of earnings / career progression / pension

Changing their job to accommodate children

• Processional women shouldn’t need to change careers to have two kids

Roping in family to help with childcare

• Don’t live here
• TBH even those I know with local family don’t have them providing consistent weekly childcare

Both parents going part time to accommodate children

• As above

Cut back their lifestyle drastically

• This is inevitable yes - holidays, daily costs etc

Move house to a different area to accommodate the above

• Bonkers, would actually cost more money

Downsize to accommodate the above

• Given I live in London, I can assure you there’s not much scope to downsize…
• Plus point above on funding it

I have to pay it, that’s the reality of the situation. And I have found the posts from users in a similar situation v interesting.

This. This is what people do.

Or they pay the fees.

That's the choice really. There's no point moaning about it. The people who look after your kids deserve to get paid.

@MidnightPatrol why not the pension suggestion out of interest?

It didn’t seem like you wanted only a moan…you wanted to know what other people in this situation do.
which is what people have told you. And which is what you haven’t liked.
you can argue those points all you like, the reality is the rest of us have made those changes to be able to afford the childcare. That’s how we have done it. That’s how most people have multiple children. You don’t want to, fine. But don’t be surprised when this is the advice you get when asking what do other parents do. Because this is what most other parents do. No, we shouldn’t have to…but most of us do. Because quite frankly it’s that or only have one child for most regular people.

@SouthLondonMum22

The absolute numbers are probably an issue fairly exclusive to London.

Although - I don’t think the ‘can’t run a household on wage’ issue is unique to London.

Did you ever try four days? I know a few women who did but they have all gone up back to five as said they were seen as PT / paid less / overlooked for promotion / ended up working anyway. Plus of
course the daily rate is higher if you do <5 days so the financial benefit wasn’t so great anyway.

@lunarleap There absolutely is a point to moaning about it. Why do you think they’re introducing more ‘free hours’? Because of the Tory’s goodwill, or because people were endlessly campaigning for
more support for working parents?

Suggestions:
Having a larger age gap

• Yes I could, but it’s higher risk and drags out the early years

yes - this is a choice though

Going part time at work

• Unrealistic in my industry

move industry

Stopping work all together

• Short term won’t be able to afford day to day
• Long term impact of earnings / career progression / pension

agreed this is a major barrier

Changing their job to accommodate children

• Processional women shouldn’t need to change careers to have two kids

why shouldn't they change career if the one they have doesn't suit?

*Roping in family to help with childcare

• Don’t live here
• TBH even those I know with local family don’t have them providing consistent weekly childcare*

This is simply one of many options that may or may not be available.

*Both parents going part time to accommodate children

• As above*

Don't see why they can't. Even condensing hours so you do the same hours 9 days every 2 weeks will help

*Cut back their lifestyle drastically

• This is inevitable yes - holidays, daily costs etc*

Great you appreciate this needs doing.

*Move house to a different area to accommodate the above

• Bonkers, would actually cost more money*

No it wouldn't if you moved to a really cheap part of the country.

*Downsize to accommodate the above

• Given I live in London, I can assure you there’s not much scope to downsize…
• Plus point above on funding it*

You don't HAVE to live in London

Excuse formatting

If you want kids you have to accept there will be a financial hit. Paying other people to look after and educate your children so you can work seems absolutely fair enough to me.

No I didn't because of all of those reasons. No one at my level works part time, not even 4 days and I'd simply never be able to compete for promotions etc.

Also, women really shouldn't feel forced to sacrifice their career or like they have to change industries when they've likely worked so hard to get to where they are. It's wrong, not to mention awful for equality.

@lunarleap I have no issue with paying for childcare. The issue is that it will cost >£4,000 pcm which is of course a very large sum of money.

Quitting my job/profession/industry and moving to a cheap part of the U.K. (so dropping my entire support network) shouldn’t be necessary to comfortably afford two kids.

I do accept there will be a financial hit while both are in nursery, as I have repeatedly said, but it’s a huge sum of money for anyone to commit to without a great deal of thought.

Well exactly.

If OP wanted just to have a rant about the cost of childcare - fair enough! Most of us would wholeheartedly agree it's very expensive.

But that's not what she asked - she asked "how do people manage?" And then shot down everything as not workable for her.

@SouthLondonMum22

Also something particularly grating about women having to give up their careers not because they want a better work/life balance, are struggling with juggling the job and home…

… but purely because the cost of childcare is so high it doesn’t make sense, even on an above average wage.

Exactly - why have children at all if they spend all that time away from you even from being babies? I just don't understand it.

£4k a MONTH? It's obscene - I hope none of you never lose your health and become unable to work, then you get to manage on about £1200 month which doesn't give you a life, just a mere existence ... sorry but this to me is pure Monopoly money!

How much do you both earn? Do you both earn significantly over £100k? I am assuming you’re both very high earners.
If you can, increased pension contributions could take you below the threshold. Have you looked into this @MidnightPatrol ? A temporary increase in pension maybe the answer.

I work in early years…are you under the impression that moaning on mumsnet is how those of us who have campaigned endlessly to increase FUNDED hours and the FUNDED hourly pay to providers have done so?! 😂
I imagine you’re in Champagne childcare on lemonade wages (given you seem to believe you’re campaigning on this thread 😂🤦🏽‍♀️) and see the actual level to which those of us campaigning (for you…I have no need for parents to have increased funded childcare given I’m paid £2.00 less per hour for every funded child than my hourly rate…) and I do this job, for you as a service to parents because I had to change my career path to enable me to have children. FYI. I’m not talking out of my arse. People DO change their careers to enable themselves to have children, and I’m one of them.
also…moaning about the cost of childcare on a public forum where there are childcare providers is really sickening. Especially when you’re divulging your wage and income to such an extent that it disgusting to be moaning about the cost of childcare when the government pays me the grand total of £5.68 per hour to look after your delightful 3 year old, keep him safe and educate him (childcare is no longer about just childcare…fyi) plan for his milestones, observe his milestones, plan interventions when he doesn’t meet his milestones etc etc. and I do all of that for £5.68 per hour for a funded child. Think yourself bloody lucky that your hourly rate isn’t £5.68 an hour and before you moan about childcare providers charging a living wage for themselves in the run up to being paid a pitiful sum by the government.
moaning about childcare fees when they are an entire sector paid pitifully is really quite disgusting.
especially when you earn enough to be priced out of the help that is available…

I had twins 🙄. I took a bank loan spread over 10 years but could have got it over longer - repayments are manageable at £260 per month. Its all gone in the tax free childcare account so topped up by 25% - it is due to run out when the twins get 30 hours

@Lottagelady TBH you’ll probably find quite a lot of parents of preschoolers are living on £1200 or thereabouts once they’re paid for childcare.

You often see posters using their savings / going into debt to try and stay working. It’s a hopeless situation really.