> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

£2600 is astronomical enough, but OP says hers is £4200 which I can't quite believe?!

@Oldermum84 that's for 2 children.

I also agree that if you've got a job that's so full on that going part time or working compressed hours would be out of the question then a really reliable nanny might be the best option. Toddlers' ability to get mild diarrhoea, conjunctivitis, chicken pox and get kicked out of nursery at the worst possible time should never be underestimated.

And the bliss of a nanny turning up at your door to take over at 8am, and not having to panic with packing bags, last second poonamis, finding shoes under the sofa etc cannot be underestimated (I'm not a morning person).

@Oldermum84 That’s for two children.

One child is £2,300pcm.

Well what's your solution then? People pay more tax so parents get free hildcare or even more subsided child care? You end up paying either way.

You don't seem to want to compromise on anything. You could live further out but don't want to, you could have a child later but don't want to and on and on.

Don't forget "just moving" out to the Home Counties, i.e. incur a probably six-figure sum in stamp duty, moving costs and additional commuting costs plus the logistical pain of a longer commute offset against a relatively small decrease in the childcare cost.

I’d agree most people have to compromise choosing different options like:
only having one child
working part time or opposite shifts
Taking parental leave
bigger age gap (you dont need 1st in school as presumably you’ll be on mat leave for a year and not need childcare. All children get some funding at 3 don’t they?)
moving to a cheaper area
giving up some privacy and getting an au pair
shifting to interest only mortgage or releasing capital
doing reciprocal childcare with a friend

I also presumed you were over 40, I think there is more flexibility with you being younger as fertility is not such a bid issue and you have longer to repay mortgage etc. it’s unusual people can have all their ideals without compromising somewhere. I don’t think £100 a day if you live in London actually is that expensive for childcare. It’s less than minimum hourly rate for one person

We have family help and a very decent combined annual income, we are based in London too. When our DD (mid-September born) was 1-5 years our monthly childcare bill for her was the same amount as our mortgage for 4 days a week full time. Absolutely horrifying and definitely made me decide I wouldn't be burning through our lifesavings (or stealing equity from our home) to fund a 2nd child. Birthrates must be falling through the floor. We sometimes joke we'd probably own a holiday cottage or investment flat if we had't managed to fall pregnant, I say joke tears roll down face.

@A1b2c3d4e5f6g7 ouch on a £1,400 mortgage increase.

@ManchesterLu the thread is literally me wanting to discuss the costs and how that looks prior to having the baby.

For 2 children.

Since I had my little one I had to change my job. I work part time and from home which gives me more flexibility and LO goes to nursery part time as well. I am waiting for 3 yo funding (which will
start in September) before we start trying for baby number 2. But I am 33 so I still have time. A lot of friends doing the same, waiting for 3 year age gap as a minimum…

@DreadPirateRobots

Yes - ‘just move somewhere with cheaper childcare ’.

The stamp duty would wipe put any financial benefit of moving, let alone the increased cost of commuting etc. And seeing less of the aforementioned children due longer commute.

Particularly given this is a short rather than long term expense.

@MidnightPatrol ask the nursery if there is a discount for paying fees upfront in a lump (some independent schools do this) alternatively, look for 1 or two year fixed rate interest bonds to make your cash work as hard as possible before baby number 2 arrives. It’s painful but short term. Extend your mat leave to the longest your company will allow (even if unpaid) to cut some months out too. Take (some) annual leave separately to your partner to add in some ‘free’ child care weeks too.

@lastchristmas80 birth rates are falling through the floor.

Between 2012-2021 there was a 17% reduction in births in London. Primary schools are closing all over the place.

I wonder if it’s all down to the cost - it certainly wouldn’t surprise me.

reading through all the realities of childcare, , careers and impact on decisions to have more than 1 DC is quite depressing!
If the government is concerned about birthrates and future economic productivity, they should sit up and listen.
I did manage to work and pay fees for my two DC but there were periods where the nursery fees matched my take home pay. However, I didn’t want to dip out of my career as it would have set me back to entry level prospects so between my DH and I we muddled and struggled through financially for a few years. It was a bit of a miserly existence but we still had days out and cheap holidays.
I did miss spending time with DC when they were tiny but we all reap the benefits now as DH and I now only work part-time on alternate days. My 2DC are now primary and secondary age. can take and collect from school (no wrap around care) supervise homework, take them to clubs and provide home cooked family dinners and a generally much more relaxed home than when we both worked. And I get a peaceful house to myself for part of the week. Great for my MH!

You might get pregnant easily enough but miscarriage is more common the older you and your partner get.

Hi OP.
You're right in that timing your pregnancy around childcare costs sounds absolutely crazy but that's been our reality and friends of ours who didn't consider this are finding they're in a difficult boat for a couple of years. We waited to have 3 years between the kids and I took a full year of mat leave with our 2nd, so we only have 9 months of double nursery fees. Helps that they're only in for 3 days a week - I'm back 'full time' but taking Fridays off as annual leave accrued while on mat leave, and grandparents have them 1 day a week, but our costs are £1,900pm. We can access the Workplace Nursery Benefit scheme via my employer that saves us £7K off our £22K fees annually, so worth exploring if it's something your employer can look into?

Ah ok thanks I misread!

We had three children in full time nursery last year, also in London and it was just over £4k per month (hopefully you can factor in a sibling discount!). Nanny would have cost the same (actually more as we would have had to have found childcare to cover leave, pay for activities, food etc) and nursery is just easier as it’s 730-630pm and open 50weeks per year.

how did we manage? Well it was difficult as mortgage also went up £700 in that time and so became more aware of the cost of things etc but it all depends on your income and outgoings. We now have 2kids in full time nursery and it’s £2700 per month. In Sept it’ll be one child at £1500 per month. Holding out till then.

Most people I know find a way to keep their taxable income below 100k because it's simply not worth it if you lose the funded hours, especially with the new rules. That and using equity or savings to top up. If I were you I'd run the sums on expected costs to school age and see if you can average it out so you pay e.g. 3000 a month for 6 years instead of 2000 then 4000 then 2000 again.

It is brutal but it helps to see it as an investment in the future and coming out of it feels amazing!

Costs and older parents I think. Like I said I don’t know anyone with 2 working parents and age gaps of anything less than 3 years. Only children are as common as siblings. The only family I know with 3+ are employed by their ‘family office’.

You shouldnt have to do it for too long? How old is your existing child? You are 35. I was 36 when I had my first anc 39 with the 2nd. Also in London.

Got pregnant when the oldest was 2. He was almost 3 when sister was born. I took a year of maternity and took him down to 3 part time during that time to save a bit. Then I went back part time for a bit before school started (6 months). I won't lie - it cost a lot and I literally spent a lot of my savings. But I was lucky as both my kids are spring / summer babies and I only need 3 years rather than 4 of nursery. I'm now down to one at nursery- but it's still tricky as I need afterschool care and holiday care. It's probably worth getting a nanny if you can afford it when oldest is at school.

One option would be to stick to one child.

Also on the people saying take the older child out during mat and pat leave, this isn't always possible. We've managed to negotiate dropping one day a week to save money, but the nursery said they are so oversubscribed that there won't be a place for him to go back to if we drop any more.

We had to put a deposit down for our second child (not yet born) at before 20 weeks to secure a place, and that's with sibling priority.

The nursery has not committed to offer any of the new 'free hours' to anyone as they're oversubscribed with people willing to pay the full childcare costs.

It's not that easy. I looked at childminders - the shortest waitlist I could get was 2.5 years. And the two decent ones have actually just closed down. Moving would incur costs of £50k plus. Commuting is extortionate (train fares have all gone up massively). Friends are paying £38 a day each for tickets into London for a 40 minute train ride. Can't see how that would save money.

Yep, we have massive problems caused by an aging population yet the successive governments failure around affordable childcare means more couples are choosing to limit their families due to the expense, leading to historically low childbirth rates.