> £4,000pcm nursery fees

[MidnightPatrol]

For those of you paying this, how bad is it? How do you cope?

I am hoping to have a second baby but it’s going to cost ~£4,200pcm (ignoring any future fee increases…!) in childcare for a year or two.

Slightly terrifying, particularly in context of higher interest rates / higher cost of servicing a mortgage when I come off my low interest deal next year.

We had similar issues - eldest nursery fees were v expensive and we didn't/don't qualify for 30 hours funded at 3yrs due to income, and tbh the universal 15 hours funded doesn't make much difference when stretched across the year. When considering having a second we delayed until youngest started primary school. There is almost 5yr age gap between my boys and that gap has been fantastic.

I was lucky though, I had my first at 27 and pregnant with second at 32 so didn't feel the fertility clock ticking quite as loudly as someone a little older, so it was 'safer' to delay a while before having the second.

@A1b2c3d4e5f6g7

Yes reducing nursery hours would mean you went back on a waiting list here too.

If you took them out… I don’t think you’d ever get them back in. My closest nursery needs pre-birth registration to get a place at 2, let alone 9 months…!

Good point on whether the nurseries will offer the free hours - also all very oversubscribed here so maybe they won’t.

@InTheRainOnATrain I know a lot of people working with children with small age gaps. Very common among my friends and colleagues, and everyone is just trying to juggle the costs. A lot of stress with the mortgage rates going up so much at the same time. I don't know how everyone is doing it, but of my close friends (and myself) it's loans, credit cards, and trying to add a bit more to the mortgage when remortgaging

FWIW - our childcare was significantly more than our mortgage for the entire time I had preschool DC, although we had the advantage, which many people now don't, that our mortgage was locked in at a low rate. We nanny shared throughout, sharing with a total of 4 other families at different times. We were briefly able to use childcare vouchers for first DC, but we lost them before I had our second DC and we were not eligible for 30 hours or tax free childcare. In fact, in the end we paid our nanny during the 15 hours at age 3 we did get because other wraparound would have been much more complicated, so technically we got no free hours at all until school started. DH earned a little over £100k, I earned (at the time) significantly less. If our mortgage had gone up during that period, it would have been very difficult indeed.

It was financially a stretch for a while, but I'm glad we muddled through. Having hung in there, I now earn about double what I earned when my first DC was born. If we had needed to borrow money to cover the childcare during those early years, it would have worked out a worthwhile sacrifice.

At least it will only cause you temporary pain. At least you aren't a poorly paid nurse with a mortgage and who is too wealthy for benefits. Just go for it. Poorer people manage.

It's honestly exactly as good as the website suggests.

We currently have a 2 yr old at nursery in SW London and 3 days per week costs£1,600. Paying pre-tax - as opposed to from Net - means a rough monthly saving of around £600 (I think, might be more -have been enrolled for a few years with no.1 as well).

As I said badly up thread, it depends on your employer - larger ones from my experience with friends, tend to be negative about it because its an individual contract between your employer and the nursery and the admin scares them. But it's only a 2 page T&Cs and once set up is zero hassle - employer pays directly to nursery from my Gross + £100 per month from the employer themselves as a contribution.

You have to meet with the nursery once a quarter to dictate where the extra £100 per month is spent; can be on things like outings, treats for staff etc.

Feel free to DM me, am evangelical about it - everyone should be using it!!!!

P.S. For context only, I am an additional rate tax payer but it's open to anyone.

I live in Canada we pay pretty much the exact same rates of tax, NI (EI) etc. It is by no means a low-tax or high welfare utopia, but as a new parent you get...

1. Sick leave during pregnancy if unable to work, separate to maternity/parental leave paid through EI as 55% up to $635pw, and possibly topped up employer
2. Paid maternity/parental for up to 18 months for both parents at the same time, and job guarantee for 24 months. 55% up to $635pw for 12 or 33% for 18. Again possibly topped up by employer
3. Child benefits
4. $10 a day daycare for lower income parents and full price is still "only" $1500pm which is tax deductable. Though there is not a place for every child and this will be a main issue for the next election.
5. Universal healthcare, again not quite enough of it and major election issue.
6. Short and long term disability through your workplace insurance which covers maternal related issues.
7. Tax allowance per adult and 1/2 per child eg. 1 bread winner with SAHP and 2 children they would get X3 the standard tax free allowance even if not married. Though it is worth half that of the UK to start with, but you can also deduct more things from it.

This.

I timed all of mine for almost as soon as one leaves nursery (or the 38 hours kicked in), the other starts. I have several children. It is actually a good gap in other ways, too. If you haven't conceived yet and you have the time, think about spacing.

@1teabag0sugar but we and the OP aren't eligible for the 30 free hours or the tax free childcare

I've read a few of your other posts, I had small children in zone 2 of London. Nursery feels each were £1600 full time. Maybe you could consider moving? It might save you £1000 - 1500 per month. Also, a job change. Some have very good benefit packages or are signed up to that one where you pay out of pre-tax earnings.

£4K a month? 😂

Farcical. As the most expensive nursery in the country is just over £17K a year, I am curious to know where this nursery is that charges, quite frankly fucking hilarious prices. So where is it @MidnightPatrol ?

The nurseries that charge more than top private schools | The Independent | The Independent

9.5k/month. That's iinsane-that must be more than the average family take home per month
Even 4k a month is most of our total income. Nursery costs were partly why i was a SAHM until my dc started school

@SWPARENT this sounds amazing - I will DM you.

I wonder why it isn’t well known of - a huge saving for anyone with children in nursery. And available to higher earners - might forward it to my employer now.

so the ‘cost’ to the employer is £100 but presumably they can net that off against reduce employers NICS / pension contribution?

I did the math grabbed what maternity pay I could resigned. Two babies 2 years apart. OH came home from work and I had an evening job IT My friend did the same supermarket work.

We only had one car so I walked everywhere, god I was fit and slim. We were so poor though for a few years,.

I went back to work part time when the youngest was at school full time.

In Wales you get 30 hours free when the child is three until then nothing.

It's awful these days unless family helps out

I also agree with this!

Statistically the most common age gap in the UK is 3 to 4 years now, probably due to the cost of childcare. It's a very common age gap in London. Though in the bit of north London where I am, it's a bit of a status symbol to have a tiny age gap, as it shows you can just shrug off that £4k a month expense.Ĺ

It's £4k for two children

A) The article you have shared is 20
years old

B) With about one minute of googling you can find a nursery in London costing vastly more than £17,000 a year.

C) £4k is for two children

You are aware that article is from 2004 and that prices might have evolved somewhat in the intervening 20years…?

awkward.

Oh the costs are brutal. It sounds like you’ve looked into moving etc and your reasons for not doing so are financially sound - it’s also only for a relatively short period of time that you will be paying both fees. How old is your first child? Would you keep them in nursery while on maternity leave?

I had my first at 34 and second at 39 - the age gap is actually nice. I had quality time with both, the first because she was the first and the second whilst the eldest was at school. I won’t pretend conceiving was as easy but it’s certainly doable without ivf etc.

The cost of 2 nursery places is the same regardless of whether you pay concurrently or consecutively. I have…known people take out personal loans (for, cough, “cars”) to help with the year or two where they were paying for 2 places- or alternatively the advice you’ve been given about nanny sharing is good!

How much is a nanny these days?

Not sure if this has been suggested, but could you increase your mortgage term to reduce your monthly payments on that front, and then overpay vs your official new lower payment once the children are in school and you have no nursery fees, so that you actually end up paying off your mortgage by more or less the same point anyway?

We must have been super unlucky with our birth year of 2017. The primary schools in the London suburb we live in were (and still are) massively over-subscribed with postage stamp-sized catchments. By the time we realised the gravity of our situation we had a) firmly decided we would only have one child and b) that we were on the hook for private school primary fees, since where we live the Kent test 11+ is still in operation. Jesus could ACTUALLY weep! I wish you the best and hope you find a solution for your family. In my opinion kids who’ve had great nursery/preschool background arrive having done the reception year already - so are used to a learning/school setting and ready to thrive/socialise with their peers.

But it would cost £50k plus in fees and stamp duty to move, and we probably wouldn't qualify for a completely new mortgage at this point. So the £600 a month childcare saving wouldn't really help. Also all the nurseries are oversubscribed at the moment as I understand it, so we couldn't guarantee two places.

And if I quit my job while pregnant (due this month) I wouldn't be entitled to any enhanced mat leave.

These options aren't worth it to me, Hence why we will be finding it either by adding to the mortgage or (if we can) or taking a loan. We chose to do it this way