Aboriginal Australians

[Beachwaves127]

I’ve tried learning a bit more about the Aboriginal Australians but I’ve found google quite limited. Wondered if anyone knew the history or had real life experience from Aus.

Particularly keen to understand if Aboriginal Australians live in Aus society, or if many still live in their own society (in the outback?)

My knowledge is limited so I will apologise in advance if any of the above is incorrect.

I like expanding my knowledge so there is no particular reason why I am asking these questions, other than I’ve realised my knowledge is virtually nil

Have you tried using Google Scholar as well? You could also look at archaeological information if you haven't already.

First Nations

Indigenous Australians is the preferred term.

Thanks for your comments. I will take a look at the links shared

John Pilgers Secret Country is a good place to start-to understand what happened historically helps to understand the difficulties of life now.
There are an increasing number of indigenous Australian authors writing about the subject

Try the Antar website, which is a group working for justice for First Nation people.
https://antar.org.au/issues/

https://koskela.com.au/blogs/news/25-books-on-indigenous-history-and-culture
This gives a nice list of different books

aiatsis.gov.au/

If you’re interested in stats, take a look at the Australian Bureau of Statistics which gives loads of info. Including, 1/3 IA live in major cities, 1/4 in Inner Regional Aus. Only 15% live in remote or very remote areas.
I live in Aus and certainly IA live and work within the general population - eg my sons’ pre school teacher was Indigenous and a couple of the teachers at his school are (in the middle of Sydney).
In some areas you are more likely to see IA than others - also, it isn’t obvious who is Indigenous and who not - you don’t have to have black skin and many IA would pass as white. Typically these IA do “better” in terms of jobs than IA living in remote areas.

There is definitely more racism towards IA - as a group there is a lot of domestic violence, child abuse, substance abuse and violent crime and many people find it hard to look beyond the crime to think about WHY one specific group are more likely to carry out these crimes than others. But sadly for some people the only experience they have with IA is seeing them passed out drunk or in the papers for CSA.

Another issue which is awkwardly discussed is that there has been, over the past 20+ years a huge amount of money spent on various attempts to “Close the Gap” between white and indigenous Australians. A lot of this money has helped a lot of white IA to secure places at top universities, pay school fees and advance. All of which is great, but there has been discussion that in allowing white IAs to benefit, who may not suffer from the same racism or poverty (especially in the cities) that this means that the people who REALLY need it, who live in poverty stricken remote communities, lose out. But the Govt can pat itself on the back and point to how many IA go to university, when these are potentially people who have fewer barriers in the first place.

First Nations people ('Indigenous' is not preferred by many) live throughout Australia, in cities, towns, and in rural and remote areas. While some live more traditional ways of life, others live in the same ways that other Australians do, and work across the same sectors, e.g. in academia, policy, business, education and the arts etc.

Many First Nations people - no matter where they live - have a deep connection to their Country:

aiatsis.gov.au/explore/map-indigenous-australia

There was a fantastic ABC Australian series called Redfern Now which you might enjoy and learn something from.

Thanks this is really interesting. Thanks. I didn’t realise IA could be white.

Yes, most Indigenous Australians (or First Nation People - sorry I didn’t realise that was now the term to use) are mixed race, especially in the cities. Hardly any FNP have had no white heritage in the mix. Some are “whiter” than others for sure. However, this is a very uncomfortable issue because white FNP are as entitled to all the same govt help and assistance as black, and this has been criticised in some areas.
Im not sure personally how I feel about it. I guess it’s splitting hairs over whether you’re disadvantaged because you’re Indigenous or black. Some people would say the assistance is to “put right” or help those who have been disadvantaged due to historic racism which of course white passing people wouldn’t have had. Others say it’s a disadvantage to be a FNP whatever skin colour you have.

I'm be very out of date but years ago I became very interested after going to Australia as a typical gap year teen and being astounded by the attitudes I saw and the wealth and health inequality. Not that I could have labelled/recognised it as such at the time as I didn't have the words or learning around it. I was lucky enough to meet some great people. A book I found very good at the time was My Place by Sally Morgan. She recounts the stories of her grandmother and mother before telling her own story.

I definitely think attitudes are changing significantly. Seeing FNP in politics, law etc has helped to change how people think. Plus interestingly a lot of women elders have spoken out strongly against domestic violence and CSA in remote communities.

There is still a long way to go. The way remote communities operate is very different to western life. They’re very hierarchical and younger people cannot say no to elders, even when this conflicts with the law. This is how a lot of younger FNP, men especially, end up in jail - driving offences when elders tell them to do something and they can’t say no.

This is also similar in relations between men and woman, which can be quite traditional - and for some this ends up in domestic violence which is seen as justified in some circumstances. Again, it’s very difficult to comment on this as a white Australian as it is very critical and is seen as being critical of a traditional lifestyle.

It’s by no means all or even a majority who are like this by the way.

It’s just not as simple to say, it’s racism or it’s all the white people’s fault. There is definite fault and definite racism but that’s not the whole picture.

For example - it has long been argued that education is the way to change things and in the past this has meant that often private schools would offer scholarships to FNP to come to prestigious schools in the city. Sounds good? But was widely criticised for being paternalistic and also removing people from their community (albeit voluntarily). But now one school has opened a number of offshoots of the school in remote communities which teach in English and Indigenous language, they teach the curriculum but also traditional practices. The outcomes are already amazing - some of these areas had NO school at all, and yet now they are getting 80-90% attendance rates. Even doing things like robotics - but all in their community.

This is so interesting thank you.

So there are pockets in remote Australia with no school even now? And are these remote areas primarily FNP or not?

@Beachwaves127 there are loads of parts of Australia with no access to a school to actually go to. These children normally do “School of the Air” which now days is basically online learning. Many children do this all over the country, especially on remote cattle stations.

This is available to anyone - but part of doing this is that they need to have an adult to supervise, and in many FNP communities there is no suitable adult to supervise. Of course, the catch 22 is that this just means that poverty and lack of education continues.

Oh right thank you. Wow I never realised that about schools. I think I’ve only just started to really consider how big Australia is, along with how new australia is, and finding it hard to comprehend!! And then ended down the rabbit hole of reading about FNP. Thank you.

My Aunt was a live in Governess only a few years ago on a cattle station - supervising daily lessons that the kids did.

Thank you. Why is it seen to be a disadvantage to be FNP in general? Is this because of the view of the different culture? Or is it skin colour? Presumably the mixed race / white FNP are mixed due to mixing with European Australians?

@Beachwaves127 its funny, I think lots of people think of Australia as a kind of hot England but it’s not really like that at all!
For a start it really is goddamn massive! I remember a few years ago there were bad bushfires in my state (NSW) and family in the U.K. were sending me concerned messages and I was like “it’s literally as far as you are from Spain” 😄

So I don’t think it’s seen as a disadvantage to be a FNP any more - I think in the past it was because they were seen as “drunken wife beaters”. Plus people didn’t take the time to understand the difference in cultures and didn’t value it. Kind of similar how people used to be about the Irish in England in a way, or Travellers.
Mixed race was definitely due to mixing with European settlers.
Again, this isn’t everyone - most FNP are just living their life!

Easy language police! I think all the ‘you can’t say that’ from North America has spread. Ignore stuff from places like amnesty as they are full of it. Try this on instead and this is the same as we hear everywhere, including all the indigenous people who come into work to speak with us.https://www.reconciliation.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/inclusive-and-respectful-language.pdf. So ignore all this you can’t say aboriginal, it’s just not correct.
aboriginal and Torres Strait islander is fine and preferred and used by many indigenous organisations. Aboriginal as an adjective is fine, but you should be aware there are many peoples so aboriginal peoples is better than people unless you’re referring to a specific tribe or nation. And aboriginal without Torres Strait Islander isn’t preferred unless you know your topic excludes Torres Strait islanders.

sorry to be abrupt but it really gets my goat people getting some cultural idea spread from America and correcting people wrongly because they don’t understand and haven’t looked into what’s suitable here. Inclusiveness and terminology is culture specific.
Just to preempt the what ifs, if you know a specific aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander group or person who find the term aboriginal offensive then of course don’t bloody use it around them. Just like I rarely use queer because I know it’s offensive to many.

It's not about fnp at all, and is apparently a bit iffy in its methods, but there's a documentary on Netflix called last stop larrimah about a small town in the northern territory, very evocative about what it's like to be in a sparsely populated place. Unimaginable to an average British mind used to villages every ten mins along the road.

Dark emu by Bruce Pascoe has been a much lauded book covering some of the issues. It has also been much criticised by aboriginal and Torres Strait islander people, so I would also read the reviews of it to understand the controversy and conflicted topics. It has been strongly recommended by young indigenous Australians interning with us so it is not solely recommended by white Australia, which is an impression you can get from some reviews.