Aboriginal Australians

[Beachwaves127]

I’ve tried learning a bit more about the Aboriginal Australians but I’ve found google quite limited. Wondered if anyone knew the history or had real life experience from Aus.

Particularly keen to understand if Aboriginal Australians live in Aus society, or if many still live in their own society (in the outback?)

My knowledge is limited so I will apologise in advance if any of the above is incorrect.

I like expanding my knowledge so there is no particular reason why I am asking these questions, other than I’ve realised my knowledge is virtually nil

No, Tortoise, they are not. The main barrier is that there is not one language. There are more than 250 languages, and even then lots of differences in the ‘same’ language between groups in different areas, so it could be argued way more than 250 if you haggle over definition of how different constitutes a different language. That means there can be no centralised way to teach within each State (education is State based here, not Federal). So it would be each school may learn a different one and would rely on a local population to come and teach it. Some may be keen but you’d struggle to get this to happen in most places.

I think an aspect that always gets missed in the disadvantage due to remoteness is the utter impossibility due solely to remoteness. The fact is, if you have a group of 100 people living literally in the middle of nowhere, you just can’t provide the infrastructure so they can have exactly the same as everyone else has.

My area is health and I’ve done a lot of work in Indigenous communities (I’ll use that term as that’s how all stats have been and are currently reported so if you search for stats under other terms, good luck). It’s common sense a community of 100 people several hours by plane from the next community (remote) are not going to have access to the same health outcomes as communities in metro or even rural areas. It’s simply next to impossible to put in the infrastructure to support this so outcomes will be equivalent. Ditto for every other service basically.

The optimal path forward is to get more of the Indigenous population involved in services, such as health and education. The uptake is far lower than anyone would like. You can only encourage and try and scaffold to make it possible but you can’t force people. Then there’s the issue that even the Indigenous population involved in these services refuse to go to certain areas because of issues there. It’s really hard to solve a lot of these problems, and irrespective of background (Indigenous or not), remote communities will always have far lower stats than metro or even rural.

Some of the 'mixing' was forced e.g. through rape, forced adoption. Deliberate ethnic cleansing in many instances, particularly in Tasmania. So it's understandable that the concept of not being 'full blood' or similar is incredibly offensive.

I have a friend who eloquently describes knowing she is ancestrally colonised and coloniser. And how distressing that is. She knows one of her female ancestors was a 13 yo FN girl. Which means one of her male ancestors is a child rapist. It's a horrible thought. She identifies with the young girl but has to process the fact that she's related to the man.

You may like to watch a film called The Rabbit Proof Fence and read stuff by aboriginal broadcaster Stan Grant. Be prepared to have your heart broken.

Also a podcast called A Bird's Eye View which is Aboriginal female prisoners talking from the inside. Some of them are incarcerated for stealing a loaf of bread.

In my view, First Nations people are treated very poorly in their own country, racism is widespread, both overt and covert. Most things are viewed only through the white person's lens.

Wait, so you çan be white and indigenous? How does that work?

Yes, there's around 800 dialects of the more than 250 languages. My kids' kindy taught them some words from the local language but to require it in schools would be a huge overhaul of the education system. I do think it's something that should be worked towards but there would be a lot of groundwork to lay.

Yes, twenty years back I worked with several Aboriginal women, one of whom was paler than my German-Irish descended self - she was blond and blue eyed. Her features were clearly Aboriginal, though.

@Ozgirl75 I loathe the attitude that "We have spent millions helping Aboriginals". It is sooooo colonial and patronising and offensive.

The sub-text is "Let's manipulate them to become more like white people" with the attitude an Aboriginal person is "doing well" if they wear a suit, work in an office and basically emulate corporate Australia.

Aboriginal people do not need help but they do need to be treated with dignity and respect for who they are in their First Nations glory.

Like all First Nations peoples, Australian Aboriginal people value their deep connection with the land, with each other, and have great respect for their ancestors. Their languages are expressed verbally, poetically, and steeped in ancient knowledge. Elders are highly respected and agreements are reached verbally and in consultation with everyone involved.

By comparison, white Australian culture values power and possessions, and seems unable or unwilling to consider any other way of life.

Very interesting threads. Thanks OP.

@MaisyAndTallulah i agree - however, there’s a big difference between painting success as working in an office in a suit and trying to pull people from the desperate poverty and violence that many of them live in. I mean, what can the govt do? They can’t just wash their hands of the FNP population, there have to be programs in place to help. I guess the most important thing is to ensure that help is applied with the full consultation of Indigenous communities.

Great thread by the way, nice to see a civil discussion which has avoided the normal “Australians are just racists” thrown about like it is normally.

Languages aren’t taught - but Aboriginal culture should be embedded in the curriculum and certainly my experience of my children at junior school is that it very much is. They’re taught Dreamtime stories, about Aboriginal activists, artists, taught about colonial history in a very fair minded way. I’m not sure learning the languages would be of much use - in the same way that children in the U.K. aren’t taught languages that are spoken by a very small amount of people but certainly at my kids’ school Aboriginal culture comes into loads of the lessons.

@Tortoise2go There is no policy of teaching te reo Māori in New Zealand schools. Most will have dual language signage, teach pepeha, waiata, and observe protocols such as pōwhiri and mihi whakatau but te reo instruction? Nope. It's only last year that the curriculum was updated to include colonisation.

Wow lots of messages for me to catch up on tonight. Looking Forward to reading them.

@Ozgirl75 but children are taught minority British languages, Welsh and Gaelic.

Thanks everyone I have caught up and some really interesting comments and lots of film and book suggestions too. Thank you.

I’m still very muddled about the arrival of Europeans and aboriginals.

Did the Europeans really arrive 200 odd years ago and build most of australia as it is today in that short time?

Was the expectation that aboriginals should adjust to western culture quickly in that 200 years and that is the start of the problems?

It sounds like many aboriginals are western now due to a real variety of reasons (adoption, rape, choice) but many still live remotely and don’t follow western culture at all.

Those IA that live remotely - are they still governed by Australian laws? Is that a silly question?

If I have misunderstood please do correct me.

This must be really difficult for your friend to get her head round and feel at peace. Does she identify as an aboriginal? Does she feel happy in western society?

@Beachwaves127 when the British invaded/settled Australia, they declared it Terra Nullius, "empty land". They included Aboriginal people among flora and fauna. Growing up I was always taught that the British "settled" Australia, which is a nice cosy word. It was in fact an invasion and there was conflict, known as the Frontier Wars.

And yes, modern, urban Australia was built since 1788. We have no buildings older than that. However there is rock art which is 40,000 years old. First Nations people have incredibly ancient spiritual stories and cultural practices embedded in the landscape .

@MaisyAndTallulah it's not compulsory in NZ schools but it's been used widely in schools and general communities since the early 90's. Admittedly at quite a basic level but much more so than any of the FNP languages where we are in Sydney.
Our DC know the all the basics in Te Reo despite being raised in Sydney with two very white parents because we were brought up with it. Across my peer group Maori history and colonisation was taught from primary onwards. It was also a standard topic for School C history in the early 2000s.
In contrast our older DC can sing a couple of aboriginal lullabies but has a decent (for a 7yo) understanding of aboriginal history, culture and connection to country. As mentioned upthread there are so many languages it would be hard to teach the language at a national level.
This link shows the languages by area for NSW alone

www.schoolsreconciliationchallenge.org.au/activities/languages-map-activity/

At preschool and daycare level they are introduced to the concepts and values and take part in reconciliation week activities etc.

I wish that were true but far from it. * *education reporter in NZ

Every dot on this map is a massacre site https://c21ch.newcastle.edu.au/colonialmassacres/detail.php?r=681

Some first nations people will describe their experience as "living in two worlds". They live under Australian law and culture but also their own. That's probably especially the case in the north where local languages and culture have survived more intact.

In fact, Yolngu music is worth a google - eg king stingray's cover of yellow is a nice easy introduction. The didgeridoo (actually called the yidaki) comes from that part of the world.

@MaisyAndTallulah not refuting your credentials but that is/was my experience

I understand, but your experience is not that of most people's. Only 4% of people in Aotearoa can hold a conversation in reo and only a pin prick of that cohort are school teachers. And sadly, we have a new government hellbent on stripping Māori out of our lives.

@MaisyAndTallulah
I do wonder if it's going backwards instead of progressing.
And yo be clear I never said holding full conversations- I was talking about the basics.