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Original poster

Misgendering worry

73 replies

Cariolaxc · 07/01/2024 18:35

Any advice please. I retired last year and started volunteering for a charity in September, working in their office part-time a few times a week to give finance admin help. I love it, it's a charity I care about, everyone is great to work with.

One of the staff moved to a desk closer to me and is really nice to be around. We've had a few chats, all good. Except that I referred to them as 'she' to another staff member, and was kindly told that their pronouns are he/they. I've been on edge since, being really careful about what I say when mentioning them in a conversation, but on Friday I slipped up and said that 'she' had been very helpful and they heard me. Jumped to correct myself immediately, apologised profusely and they told me not to worry. However - I don't know how to stop myself doing similar again, in a casual conversation when I've relaxed. Mentally I'm aware of his preferences and bearing it in mind. Visually - I see someone who does not look masculine at all. He looks like a young woman, has a feminine hairstyle, wears trousers, blouses - women's clothes. He also has two very young children that come into the office every now and then. Even his name is one that is used by men and women alike.

I'm really upset about this, to the point I'm thinking of standing down as a volunteer. There is this really nice person who I get on really well with, but I'm in danger of really offending them at some point. When I stay alert I consciously remember to use the right words. It's when I'm relaxed, as I was on Friday, having a casual chat and my 65 year old brain reacts to patterns that I've learned since birth - I don't know how to stop that happening. It's the sort of stuff that ends up in the tabloids if it goes wrong. I don't know why I'm even asking really, just so worried, I think I know what I'll do.

OP posts:
LakeTiticaca · 07/01/2024 18:46

So you are expected to know that someone who looks and acts female, wears female clothing is actually male? What does this person's children call this person, mummy or daddy?
In your shoes I would be looking for a different voluntary opportunity pretty sharpish

DahliaMacNamara · 07/01/2024 18:50

If you train yourself to always say 'they', it gets slightly easier. I find the ambiguity very hard, and I'm much more prone to slipping up where there's a gendered option in the mix too. Some of my DC's friends are non-binary, yet accept he/she where you'd probably assume the opposite if you hadn't been told. I occasionally get told off by the DC for accidentally letting the wrong pronoun slip out, so I stick to 'they' to avoid controversy. But I could swear I hear the DC doing the same thing from time to time. It's easily done, without malice or any intention of making a point. I would hope people can tell that you're trying your best to respect them.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2024 18:51

If someone is offended by you naturally using normal language (sounds like that wasn't the case) then honestly that's their problem.

nozbottheblue · 07/01/2024 19:01

Why not have a quiet word with this person that you get on well with? He will be aware that it's not easy for people to remember to use a different pronoun- you're not going to be the first person who has trouble remembering!
As long as he knows you are trying to respect his choices (as he does because of your apologies when you slipped up) I'm sure all will be well. He would probably be horrified to think you were considering leaving because of this.

Alargeoneplease89 · 07/01/2024 19:05

Can't you just use their name if you can't get around their pronouns? Seems a non issue and a bit dramatic about not volunteering because of the wrong use.

literalviolence · 07/01/2024 19:06

Anyone who tries to force people to use cross sex pronouns is showing themselves to have little regard for others. It's mentally highly taxing to pretend that someone is a different sex than they are. I would avoid any pronouns for them and I'd, personally, avoid contact with them as much as possible because I think they are not someone who is interested in thinking critically or doing the right thing. It would be a shame to stop volunteering just because of one person who has questionable morals though.

xyz111 · 07/01/2024 19:08

I'm r just don't use their pronouns when talking to them. Just say "Jo was really helpful".

Januarydontbecool · 07/01/2024 19:09

@nozbottheblue wrote
”Why not have a quiet word with this person that you get on well with? He will be aware that it's not easy for people to remember to use a different pronoun- you're not going to be the first person who has trouble remembering!
As long as he knows you are trying to respect his choices (as he does because of your apologies when you slipped up) I'm sure all will be well. He would probably be horrified to think you were considering leaving because of this.”

Just what I was going to write. That’s my experience, anyway.

Hellocatshome · 07/01/2024 19:14

You have said yourself they are very nice and you get on well so just have a chat with them. Say whilst you are trying to always use the correct pronoun you are finding it difficult sometimes and no offence is meant etc etc. I'm sure they will be fine and happy you are trying.

Horrace · 07/01/2024 19:14

I'm confused.nis this person male or female?

popebishop · 07/01/2024 19:14

It's hard because "she" literally refers to female people, not whether someone is deemed to be adequately feminine enough (how would one even start defining what that would be?)

Personally I would maybe be straight up with them, as I find honesty is the best policy. Say you're sure they're not a woma in the way they choose to believe, and you will try and be courteous enough to refer to them as "he", but occasionally the usage that you've used billions of times in your life before may slip out accidentally, because no-one has set out what "he" and "she" actually refer to now.

The pronouns you use have no bearing on who they are as a person.

If they've told you not to worry then I assume they're being honest about that?

popebishop · 07/01/2024 19:15

I was assuming the person was female in my previous post but yeah the op isn't that clear.

GrumpyPanda · 07/01/2024 19:18

This reply has been deleted

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Towelrail · 07/01/2024 19:19

Say "that person".

Correlation · 07/01/2024 19:20

FFS you're volunteering in your retirement and they load you with this bloody stuff. You don't need to get involved in this bit, OP. Sorry but this kind of thing makes me sweary. Go and enjoy your retirement away from this madness.

literalviolence · 07/01/2024 19:20

The OP suggested they look like a woman, so unless this is a disingenuous post, it's clearly actually a woman. If it's really a bloke who just wants to wear clothes sold in women's departments (possible but rare because the sizing fits female proportions not male proportions) then the OP would still be well able to spot that it's a man in ladies clothes TW are very clearly men.

Deathbyathousandcats · 07/01/2024 19:21

There’s plenty of these neurotics around. Try to get into the habit of using ‘they’ if you possibly can.

Correlation · 07/01/2024 19:21

*shit

Milliemoos5 · 07/01/2024 19:21

It’s really hard to train your brain like this. I have a great friend who is a gay man. A couple of years ago he said he is non binary and would like to be referred as them/they. I have no problem with this.

but.. i invited them to a work thing where they were presenting on a particular topic (I bought them in as an external speaker). I had to introduce them to a large audience, speak for a few mins about their background etc and it was sooooo hard to use the correct pronouns naturally. And of course I got it wrong a couple of times eg ‘welcome to John… they work at ABC Ltd. I used to work with him at…’ ouch, I felt like I had let my friend down (they never mentioned it)

Bunnyhair · 07/01/2024 19:24

Is your relationship with this person such that you could have a private chat and apologise and say you meant no offence and ask them to bear with you in the knowledge that even if you skip up now and then you are trying, and you like and respect them and never want to make them uncomfortable?

If you have any sense that a conversation like this might not go down well, in your shoes I’d probably bow out. I wouldn’t want to risk my nice retirement bit of giving back to the community blown apart by some awful grievance case.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2024 19:25

The problem is they don't want correct pronouns, they prefer incorrect/nonstandard ones. 'He' isn't 'correct' for a male. 'They' is perfectly standard English for an individual of unknown sex but it's not usual for a person of known sex.

literalviolence · 07/01/2024 19:26

@Milliemoos5 I don't think you let him down really. Everyone could see that he was a man who felt it was OK to make people jump through hoops and did not mind supporting a hugely anti-women system. You gave nothing about him away when you used correct-sex pronouns.

Horrace · 07/01/2024 19:26

Whatever this person think they are. They have way too much time in their hands to be concerned about pronouns.
You should just call them them whatever you feel like. Do what makes you comfortable. That seems to be the way of the world these days
I'm fucking sick of it

roarrfeckingroar · 07/01/2024 19:29

You shouldn't have to tie yourself up on knots and feel anxious at work

theduchessofspork · 07/01/2024 19:30

Hellocatshome · 07/01/2024 19:14

You have said yourself they are very nice and you get on well so just have a chat with them. Say whilst you are trying to always use the correct pronoun you are finding it difficult sometimes and no offence is meant etc etc. I'm sure they will be fine and happy you are trying.

Yes this.

I think you are making a bit too much of this - it doesn't sound that you are remotely doing it on purpose.