Yet *another* mass shooting in the USA

[Ifailed]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-67884835

When will they ever learn?

@LindyLou2020 I don’t think it’s the guns you can see people carrying which is the problem…

The House representative for this district is on record for wanting looser gun restrictions and Iowa is very much an agricultural red state, so a lot of guns (rifles and sights rather than small gangland pistols) for hunting, farm work, etc. Ought to be interesting to see how he squirms with trying to square this circle, but at the end of the day local citizens will chalk it up to a troubled teen and think it could never happen to them or their kids because they are 'responsible gun owners'.

Well said, @LindyLou2020 , you have given a good explanation of the current thinking for many Americans.
As you mention, 'the right to bear arms' is a key point in the constitution for many Americans and now rooted not so much in the idea of civil resistance, as it was originally intended, but the idea of self-sufficiency - many Americans pre-1890 hunted for food or defended their livestock against predators (bears, wolves, pumas/mt. lions, wolverines)

@LindyLou2020 Democrats are anti-guns but never banned them when in power?

Every time it feels so shocking but it’s not shocking at all. It’s inevitable in that environment and shootings will continue as long as those laws stand. Land of the free indeed. A relative is married to a lovely American man they lived in NY for the first 3 years of their DC life. She told me she felt emotional the first time she dropped them at nursery in the UK as it just felt such a safe space compared to the (lovely, v expensive!) US daycare.

But many of the perpetrators are not established criminals! They're average people who are law abiding until some obsession or trigger escalates into a mass murder because they have easy access to firearms.

That wasn't my point...

School shootings = pressure to ban guns

Banning guns = reduced guns, largely in the 'law abiding' demographic

Fewer guns with 'good' people = disproportionate amount with criminals

So yes, while most school shootings are perpetrated by the 'good-but-pushed-too-far crowd, and banning is unlikely to stop this, the 'real' reason they probably won't be banned is due to the 'good' not wanting to now be outgunned by the bad.

I'm interested why you think it's sour grapes?

@C1N1C I agree with you and don’t see how the status quo will ever be changed.
Think the US is fucked in many ways and right to bear arms high on that list.

You need cross-party support for any measure to change the constitution.

Shame guns aren't alcohol - they banned that easy enough.

@keylemon
I didn't say Democrats are anti-guns. I actually said my daughter's in-laws are Democrats and anti-guns. I wasn't speaking for all Democrats.
@SerendipityJane
You are absolutely right about cross-party support.

In 2023 there were 748 mass shootings. That's over 2 a day.

Mass shooting means at least 4 people were killed/injured by guns in a single incident.

They will never learn, their thinking is completely screwed.
It's quite simple really. Get rid of the guns and the mass shootings will stop - at least diminish, as there will always be someone who gets hold of a gun.
I can't see the logic of keeping a gun to defend yourself. Other countries manage fine.

It’s not that simple though, is it? The good people give up their guns and the baddies don’t. It’s just going to lead to more robberies and home invasions because the criminals know they’ll be unchallenged.

Honestly, if I lived there I think I’d want to be able to defend my home and family, even though I fundamentally hate guns and the US policy on arms.

The one thing that particularly pisses me off though - NOBODY needs an assault rifle unless they’re in a proper war/combat situation. Those need banning completely.

They seem to have a completely different mindset
Just one small example i,m on an American Facebook group.for parents of children with severe autism and learning disabilities
There was a,discussion that provoked outrage that parents of non disabled children were angry that some disabled children in the special.education classes would not be able to.keep.quiet if the school went unto. Lockdown because for a mass shooting
Rather than focusing on the real issue ,why there are so many mass shootings in schools in the first place.

Absolute facts

@DinaofCloud9
I won't presume to know what @LlynTegid meant about "sour grapes", but I'd like to hazard a guess.....
I've spent a fair amount of time in the US now, not just as a tourist, but visiting my daughter where she lives and works, meeting her friends and colleagues, etc. But of course I haven't lived there.
I find it quite odd, and extremely narrow-minded if not jingoistic, to hear some, (not many, fortunately), British people say "I could never live in America", or words to that effect, when they have never, ever been there.
It may surprise some of you to know that there are aspects of the US that I have come to love, and have met some lovely American people, who by and large still like us Brits.
There seems to be a weird British delight in stridently running down and criticising America and Americans, and of course it has its vile aspects, just as everywhere has, including the UK.
I believe it's psychological, and yes, sour grapes. Even 'though, as @LlynTegid said, there are far worse places on the planet than the US. It's as if we need to denigrate the place in order to compensate for, or deny, our own aspects of crappiness here.
It makes us feel better to pretend it's all bad there, almost in a childish "my country is better than yours" way.
I don't know if we belittle other countries in the same way, or whether other nations belittle the US, but I have every belief in what @LlynTegid says about her experiences here.

Actually it is that simple. Less than 5% of gun deaths are people trying to defend themselves.
The “I need a gun because the bad guys have them” argument doesn’t hold when you look at the facts.

In 2023, an average of 117 people a day died by gun violence, so 2024 is off to a slow start. I believe the death rate picks up when the weather gets warmer.

Just musing on the sour grapes thing, I wonder if it is partly because many Brits find it so easy to identify with the US (and Australia etc) and unconsciously include them as "us" in an us and them way of thinking, thus feeling a sort of right to comment. Please note I don't agree with any of that personally! Alternatively it is more basic envy for what is perceived as a country of big houses, plenty of land etc. I don't know.

Whilst I recognise the argument that the ship has sailed and an amnesty will fail I don't think it is so relevant in an argument about school shootings, most of which are not carried out by a criminal underworld and I wonder therefore whether that is really a genuine counter argument. The Australian gun amnesty was largely successful although admittedly many years ago now. I don't know, I guess I just feel frustrated at the idea that we/they collectively shrug their shoulders and say well this is just how it is now, no point trying to change.

You don't have to ban guns entirely in one go. I don't think that's a solution anyone is seriously suggesting. Moderating incrementally over time will eventually change the culture. Open sale of ammunition could be better controlled. More checks. More time between buying a gun and actually having it in your hands. National responsibility rather than state or regional. Accurate data gathering. Registers. There's lots of ways you could slowly change the attitude to gun ownership. At the moment the NRA use the "threat" that gun control means a total ban and so it rumbles on without ever changing. There's nothing wrong with a few more rules.

I think there should be at least some federal laws, like PP said with banning assault rifles, how are those justifiable.
It's a difficult issue though, I think a lot of it stems from boredom and hopelessness too.

It’s not that simple though, is it? The good people give up their guns and the baddies don’t. It’s just going to lead to more robberies and home invasions because the criminals know they’ll be unchallenged.

That didn't happen in the UK or Australia when they banned casual ownership of guns.