MIL a nightmare

[SwordToFlamethrower]

Been married 3 years, together 9 years. MIL been a nightmare since day one.

There have been stints of NC or greyrocking but now she is back in our lives because we have a baby.

It is hard to describe what she is like so I'll give you recent examples.

She came to visit a few weeks ago and I was making a meat pie from scratch for dinner. She stood over my shoulder and demanded to know what I was doing. I was confused and said I was rubbing fat into flour to make pastry. She is very shrill naturally and shreaked that in her country NO ONE makes pies or pastries because they're not as good as the professionally made ones. She then started going on about how the Nazis would shoot people in the street when her parents were younger. It was horrible. She was rude, judgmental and said "why not just leave it to the professionals?" DH was furious at her and told her she was insensitive. Her childhood stories and what she likes or doesn't like or thinks dominates any conversation.

We were watching a comedy show on tv and every time I laughed, she craned her neck, scowling at me in confusion. Making me self conscious for finding comedy funny, in my own home. (She didn't find it funny)

Had a go at ME for not tidying up enough for her visit then laughed and said she was joking when DH said "you're not a guest, you're family, so we don't stand on ceremony for you".

She's just gone home after another visit and this time she sat staring at me nursing my 13 month old. I knew what was coming because 9 years ago she said that women who breastfeed for more than 12 months are getting a sick sexual pleasure from it. I never forgot what she said and I was so tense as she stared at me. "When are you planning to finish breastfeeding?" I knew it! But I tried not to bite. "No plans."

She questioned me, very concerned that she thought it would stunt DD growth, cause weight issues. That it isn't as nutricious as cows milk and surely I want to stop??? At least she didn't accuse me of being a pedo.

I tried laughing it off and DH told her again she was rude. But by the end of the three day visit, we'd been forced to listen to her talking about babies being murdered, wars, her views on politics, on religion (she is a devout Christian and we are atheists) and the best one - a three hour lecture about why we are wrong to not watch TV every evening and instead read, do crafts and play games or whatever. She thinks WE are rigid and unimaginative.

I'm absolutely fed up of her. DH is an only child and she lives alone in London, She is early 70s, fit and healthy.

Yes she might be autistic but honestly, that doesn't excuse her shitty behaviour. She doesn't take no for an answer and her way is the only way, the right way and she doesn't stop when we ask her to.

I don't see this situation improving really!

Anyone else got a MIL like this?

She's dreadful. And if your DH can't or won't understand why you never want her in your home again, then you have a DH problem as well as a MIL one. Maybe he's living in the F.O.G. (look it up), but he owes it to you and your dc to do something about it.

Is there a FIL around?

They divorced 2 decades ago, she is on her own.

Husband isn't in the fog.

She's gone from straight up shouting and swearing at me for things "you're not wearing that are you! You'll humiliate my son!" To gently and softly saying "surely you don't need to be breastfeeding anymore".

Same nasty, judgmental attitude, but with the volume turned down.

Have you been very direct with her OP? As in, if she says 'You're not wearing that, you'll embarrass my son' just be super blunt and answer something along the lines of 'I find it incredibly rude of you to comment on my clothing. I have never embarrassed your son in the decade we have been together. If you comment on my clothing again I will ask you to leave.'

'My breastfeeding is absolutely none of your business, if you comment on it again, you will not be welcome in this house'.

'I am baking because I enjoy it. In this house, we are grateful for the food prepared for us so if you have nothing nice to say or don't want to eat it, go get yourself a shop bought one and don't bother coming round for dinner anymore'

'If you don't think the house is tidy enough for you, please feel free to get up and help us out by tidying a bit. Otherwise, please keep your opinions on my home to yourself, or you will not be welcome'

Have you been this blunt with her?

I was wondering that too

No I don't think I have.

This is brilliant. Thank-you!

I usually just feel triggered and panicky and start fawning around her.

I need some prepared go-to responses don't I. Something I can reel off in the moment.

The Dutch don't have ovens and anyway, the nazis would shoot anyone trying to start a fire to bake or cook.

I asked her what that had to do with me a British woman in 2023 and she said that's why she was never taught by her mother.

Fwiw I wasn't taught by my mother either, but I learned by reading cookery books and watching baking programs.

She once shreaked "what the fuck is this doing on?!" When I was visiting her when dh and I had just started going out together. She grabbed the remote and switched the channel, right there while I was watching. (She wasn't watching TV, she had been busy doing something else)

Sorry, should have checked what I had written! She freaked out that I was watching a cookery program. Freaked as in, she was offended and disgusted.

I did say how sorry I was about the Nazis and I very gently offered to show her how to bake a pastry crust and she responded in a way that seemed as though I'd offered to shit in a dish and serve that up for her. She was offended and said "oh my god no! That's BORING!!"

I am also a mother of adult children, got a 20 year old son who has just got engaged to his lovely girlfriend!

I treat her with kindness and respect. I'd never dream of speaking to her the way my mil speaks to me! And I grew up with trauma!

Does she have undiagnosed dementia perhaps?

I don't think it's necessarily direct war trauma, although a PP's point about trauamtised parents in Holland is valid. My now deceased MiL could be a pain. She stared at me as I bf 10 day old DD1. I found it really off-putting. She had very different views on child-rearing and what my DDs should be doing, perhaps because she was 44 years older than me. She was brought up in a part of Germany that is now Russia. Her trauma was her brother appearing in 1944 in SS uniform telling her and her mother to get out NOW before the Russians turned up. They took a trunk on the back of the milk lorry and ended up in NW Germany with nowhere to stay and starving.

Because of those experiences, she was quite a suspicious person and it took ages for her to trust me. She was stubborn and would believe all sorts of crazy nonsense. But because she had known hunger, she was an absolute pleasure to cook for because she scoffed anything I put in front of her. She adored my DDs and on her deathbed, she thanked me for making her DS (my DH) happy and for bringing my DDs into her life. At her funeral, DH was panicking about her eulogy so I wrote and delivered it; it was the least I could do.

OP, your MiL is a nasty person. Use InaPickle's excellent rebuffs to her. Remember, you have the ace card, your child. If she wants contact with your DC, she has to be polite to you.

@SwordToFlamethrower how far away from you does she live?? why does she have to stay in your house? i would not have a mother or mother in law staying in my house overnight ever! tell her just to get out and not to darken your doorstep ever again. you appear strong enough to do that OP

Possibly? She has always been this horrible though.

Thank you for the vote of confidence in me.

She doesn't drive and gets a coach which takes about 3 hours. 4 hours including public transport to get to the station.

I suppose she stays because it's the "done thing" when someone visits. We have a spare bedroom at the moment because my adult son is away.

I've discussed with dh today about the possibility of not keeping quiet or gently explaining our reasons for doing things and instead being more blunt as kindly suggested on here by a previous comment:

"that's incredibly rude! If you're going to be like that, it's probably best you don't visit".

DH has asked if it would be better to phone her and for him to tell her how rude she is and not to speak that way.

The only trouble is, she will use his examples and she will think "ok, I shouldn't criticise breastfeeding but any future topics are ok"

She just doesn't see anything wrong with the way she speaks or acts out!

I lived in the Netherlands for years. They pride themselves on being “Direct”. Often that is code for RUDE.
Meanwhile, the Dutch DO bloody have ovens and they bake quite a lot. They have Tompoes, Appeltaart, Pepernoten and Taartjes. Give the woman a slice of processed cheese and an aging white bread roll and tell her to make en bolletje. I think you need to be Direct back at her and remind her that it is YOUR house and YOUR KID.
Btw, Dutch absolutely encourage BF for as long as possible.
Here are some Dutch websites you might find useful
24 BABY NL
Kind en Gezin

Yes I think we do need to start being direct.

That's really fucking rude!

Mind your own business!

Thanks for the links, I'll take a look!

She is nuts! I'd go as lc as possible if not nc

You can’t change her behaviour, you can only change how you feel about it.

Stop caring. Tell yourself her opinion is irrelevant to you. Don’t allow yourself to be annoyed.

My MIL is batshit but now that I’ve stopped letting it bother me I just look forward to what she’s going to say next because I know me and DH will have a giggle and eye roll about how mental it was afterwards.

Don’t give her a reaction, say things like “oh, right”, “that’s interesting”. Or if my MIL says things that are particularly intended to get a reaction from me I just pretend I haven’t heard.

Match her energy.

The links don't appear to give much information regarding breastfeeding after 12 months. The world health organisation says 2 years up to 5 years, which we did show her at the time, but those websites aren't explicit and only really talk about the first 6-12 months.

Why would you try to justify your decision though? That makes it seem like she has a right to an opinion or like you want to change her mind so she agrees with you.. when actually she doesn’t need to be involved at all.

Just to say, being autistic is a completely different thing to being rude and unkind.

Yeah that's what our tactics have been the last year or so.

She's visited twice in the last 6 weeks for about 4 days each and by the end of each visit, I was feeling anxious, exhausted and fed up of walking on eggshells.

It is constant.

I'm thirsty! Why are you doing that? That's boring! I'm really worried about the cat/the baby eating too much/not enough/ oh no the baby is starting, she needs protein. Here are my views on the war/politics/TV preferences/the environment/what you wear/your hairstyle.. my childhood, my views on parenting.

And she just doesn't stop.

I admittedly have very thin skin.

She sounds annoying so I would have to answer her back and restrict visits. It sounds like your DH backs you up though which is good. Do you retaliate when she comes out with shitty comments like that?

Yes you're right. She just has a way of forcing you to justify everything about yourself. And everything needs to be backed up with evidence or she will explain that you're wrong. Mind you, even with evidence, you're still wrong.

I live in the NL and my goodness, it's been a learning curve in how to deal with 'directness'. Makes a bucket of ice water seem cosy sometimes. Literally been left speechless sometimes.

I've literally heard an acquaintance say 'fuck off' on the phone to a client and no one seems to turn a hair. The client renewed the contract too!

Not everyone is like this though. Many are direct, but much less offensive. From the sound of it in your mother in law's case there's a combination of over-directness (Is she from Rotterdam by any chance?) and she's personally extremely rude. A friend who is a Rotterdammer said that she gave her sister something and the sister's response was "I don't like it, take it back" and no one turned a hair about that, either.

The silver lining to all this is that it's often not a personal thing. It's just ... them.

I'm sorry to say the best way to handle it is to be just as 'direct' back and to not give an inch, or you'll be run ragged, as you have been. Personally I find it extremely hard to do, but it is the best way.

Btw the poor cooking -is- a thing here historically. Haute cuisine is Stamppot, which is pureed potatoes with endive or sour cabbage and sausage in. Fortunately not the case now, but could well have been in your MiL's generation. The war trauma is very real too.