Is it really illegal to refuse to have a smart meter?

[ALongHardWinter]

This is what a friend of a friend told me yesterday. Is it true? My electric company have been sending me letters every few months for the last couple of years urging me to have one installed. So far I've dug my heels in,mainly due to all the horror stories I've heard about them - not working initially,or working initially then suddenly not working. I know at least 6 people who've had them installed that have had problems. Now I get told this!

This.

Yeah but that is not a function of smart meters, that's just them being dickheads. Stuff like that happened all the time with dumb meters too.

It's not a conspiracy, just stupidity.

Not really - your post gave the impression that people who had Smart Meters were going to get higher bills.

OTOH - what are the potential cost savings?

I do think that the data is very helpful to manage load, demand, and to enable us to get a more efficient energy system.

They might help some people change their way of using power, but I think that incentivising people to change their energy habits, to use power differently through the day through different charging levels, will help the UK with ensuring we utilise energy effectively.

January 2023 (my bolding):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64469358
Disagreements over who should primarily tackle the issues of forced prepayment meter switches have emerged in front of a committee of MPs.
Strict rules apply that prevent energy suppliers moving an at-risk customer onto a prepayment meter if they are struggling to pay.
Energy UK, which represents firms, told MPs on the Business Committee that it was "Ofgem's job to enforce".
But the regulator's boss said he was "deeply concerned" by that demand.
Jonathan Brearley, chief executive of Ofgem, said there was a "deep problem with culture and approach" if suppliers were relying on the regulator to ensure they were keeping to the rules, rather than doing so themselves.
[...]
Customers who are behind on their energy bills can be moved to a more expensive prepayment meter. This can be done remotely on a smart meter, or physically after the firm has been given a warrant to do so.
However, there are rules that should ensure vulnerable customers are not forcibly moved.
In his speech a week ago, Mr Brearley said he was "concerned" about the sharp growth in households being switched to prepayment meters, "sometimes without their even knowing about it".

A smart meter could easily be built to turn off the supply remotely.

Exactly! Quotas of a certain amount of energy allowed every year, to fit the net zero agenda. They're already offering bribes with this. They have already planted the seed of "energy blackouts in winter", to condition us to accept them before they happen, especially if we refuse to play their game, i.e. by refusing to get a smart meter. And while there might be a certain "due process" to actually stop someone's electricity, it is not impossible. If you have an electric car (on which the government is doing a very hard sell, despite their obvious problems), you then can't drive it without electricity. Blueprint for a future lockdown: you're only allowed power for your electric car if you can prove you have an "acceptable" reason to drive it, as we were supposed to be minimising travel in 2020, no frivolous trips to Barnard Castle allowed. And de-banking: I believe that it is very possible for the government to de-bank people they simply do not like. (By the way, I don't believe Farage was de-banked because of his political views; I've heard comment that it was simply because he wasn't rich enough for that millionaires' club, but he spun it to look like he was forcibly de-banked. Lots of things are not as they seem, on both sides of these arguments: I'm sceptical about both sides.)

And yes, I do know that loyalty cards etc. serve exactly the same purpose, also cookies on your computer, surveys with money prizes, CCTV everywhere. Our information collected by loyalty cards and so on is far more valuable than the peanuts they offer in return for them. I don't like loyalty cards, and I use them with great reluctance.

I'm not suggesting we refuse all things such as loyalty cards and so on: in this day and age, they are extremely difficult to avoid. But I do think we need to show we are aware of the true reasons for them, instead of just blindly accepting them. The methods that government and business use to persuade customers are extremely powerful; they rely on people accepting them without a second thought. I believe there needs to be a certain resistance by default. If anyone tries to sell me anything without me asking for it, especially on my doorstep, I make them work hard to convince me.

That is interesting. If my situation of a flat not being suitable, and same for many older people's residential complexes, then I expect that type of home must account for a good percentage of the 25% not expected to be on smart meter in that time scale.

Smart meters didn't make the energy companies dickheads.

Smart meters do enable the dickheads.

The energy companies are able to do a great deal more harm to vulnerable people, faster and at less cost to themselves, with smart meters than they can with dumb meters.

So yeah, it's stupidity alright. Stupidity to increase the amount of power we hand to known dickheads. <shrug>

February 2023:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64524156
Courts waved through applications by energy firms to forcibly install prepayment meters in people's homes, according to internal advice from a top magistrate leaked to the BBC.
Previous guidelines required careful scrutiny of warrant applications, but new advice to courts deems those rules "disproportionate".
[...]
In an internal FAQ post for magistrates, Mr Webster told magistrates the "advice given to justices has not kept up with changes in the way utility companies operate". As the remedy sought by energy companies for unpaid bills is no longer disconnection, but installation of a prepayment meter, "checks magistrates have been asked to make are now disproportionate and go far beyond the legal requirements".
In 2022, as the cost of living crisis took hold, magistrates approved more than 1,000 warrants a day. Almost all of these claims are now authorised electronically or over the phone, by specific magistrates courts allocated to each energy company.
Energy company agents apply by telephone and send in large spreadsheets with between 100 and 1000 cases, where customers are told they do have the right to contest the warrant, but many do not respond. The hearings will sign off, issue and send all the electronic warrants in "a maximum of 15 minutes" according to evidence from pilots.
Legal experts suggest that the advice showed that magistrates were no longer safeguarding vulnerable people and were instead accepting the word of big energy companies "in good faith".

Then end result is EXACTLY them same

the difference with smart meters there a pre pay option

old metre all or nothing

All of these news reports I'm posting?

I predicted back in 2011 that exactly this would happen.

That's not the point I'm making. I can't say it any more simpler.

Have you read the Code of Practice after the concerns you have posted were discussed?

@ArchetypalBusyMum 's post is the nub of it.

All those people banging on about whether the law ultimately permits fitting of a prepayment meter have missed the point.

When it is cheap and quick for utility companies to remotely switch meters to prepayment, they will switch more meters than when it is expensive and slow for them to do so.

Have you read my post saying the utility companies have never given a shit about the law, never mind some new Code of Practice?

Well - that's a matter of enforcement and the Ombudsman.

The Code of Practice was introduced in response to the issues you are posting.

April 2016:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/scottish-power-fined-ps18m-for-poor-customer-service-that-prompted-one-million-complaints-a7001346.html

June 2023:
https://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/articles/ofgem-fines-sse-ps978m-for-overcharging-amid-grid-balancing-efforts
Ofgem fines SSE £9.78m for overcharging amid grid balancing efforts
[...]
The Perth-based FTSE 100 company had substantially hiked its charges for lowering output from its hydroelectric plant at Loch Ness in May 2020, a move that Ofgem judged was designed to increase profits.
The investigation into SSE’s practices was prompted by accusations of energy companies exploiting the “balancing mechanism” of payments used to ensure the electricity grid can match supply and demand.
Bloomberg reported that energy firms, including SSE, had garnered more than £500m via trading methods that were seen to misuse the balancing system. It was discovered that SSE had profited £33m from its own plants and a further £87m from a facility co-owned with CK Infrastructure Holdings.

When I sublit a reading my energy company checks to see that usage is in line with what they'd expect (and occasionally send an actual meter reader to check). That should pick up an incorrectly input number. And as I work with numbers I automatically double check my meter readings and my input when I submit them.

That latter sounds like it's starting to head into Enron territory, for those who remember that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000–2001_California_electricity_crisis

So you can see how errors can happen then?

The ultimate aim of smart meters is to be able to charge different rates at different times of day. Currently it's being used as a carrot, use less on certain days at certain times and get a rebate, but inevitably it will be you get charged more at busy times when you want to use your cooker, etc.

Yes, I can. That's why I double check, in case you missed that bit. 🙄And check before I submit.

You'll be telling us next that no-one has ever had a problem with their smart meter readings, I bet. Like this Code of Practice that the energy companies have never breached repeatedly, until it turns out they have.

I've had almost monthly letters from my supplier telling me how worse off I'll be if I don't have a smart meter etc but I've just ignored them. The latest was £100 credit if I took one but this was also linked to paying by monthly DD which I won't do either.

My gas supplier even had to cheek to send me a card with "my installation appointment" on it. Then I had to go to the bother of emailing to cancel it.

10 years on average.

We know, because the installation date is sent between suppliers all electronically. How do you think we get your meter info for your bill when you want to move supplier in the first place?

Your meter should be replaced. 80s gas meters have a diaphram mechanism and the material used can perish and cause gas leaks.

Always worth double checking when entering figures - and I was responding in my original post to someone who couldn't see how errors could happen.

And yes - I would expect there to be problems with Smart Meter readings.

And companies will breach the Code of Practice. There are consequences though if a company does breach a Code of Practice.