Is it really illegal to refuse to have a smart meter?

[ALongHardWinter]

This is what a friend of a friend told me yesterday. Is it true? My electric company have been sending me letters every few months for the last couple of years urging me to have one installed. So far I've dug my heels in,mainly due to all the horror stories I've heard about them - not working initially,or working initially then suddenly not working. I know at least 6 people who've had them installed that have had problems. Now I get told this!

A lot! Many older people still don't use the internet. On the days of the price cap changes it's usually back to back calls of people phoning in reads.

Yes, so that's why we should just roll over and let anybody who may not have our best interests at heart do whatever they want to us without ever protesting or resisting...?

The 'tinfoil hatter' phrase is getting so ridiculously tedious now (well, it always has been). It's a way of saying "I think you're a stupid person" without having the guts to just come out and say that.

Personally, whether people agree with me or not, I prefer to discuss things based on opinions and considered arguments rather than resorting to childish ad hominem attacks.

So are you saying that how many old people's lives function for them doesn't suit you, so they must be forced to change?

This sounds to me like the banks, when they keep on closing bank branches by insisting that 95% of transactions are already done online; but what they don't make clear is that it isn't 95% of everybody's transactions done online, with people just being a bit lazy and not realising they can also do the rest online; rather that, whilst most people do nigh on 100% online, that overall 5% represents ALL of the banking of a lot of elderly and vulnerable people, whom they wish to simply disenfranchise by twisting their presentation of statistics.

You'd think that the energy companies would be grateful that the vast majority of younger and/or more tech savvy people have saved them a fortune by willingly submitting their readings online; but instead, they take that as a given and then look to blame the minority for not saving them even more money, at the expense of their own comfort, convenience and personal agency and independence.

Please tell me where I said that? I was simply relaying what happens.

I'm not the owner of the company. I earn £23k doing customer service. Do you think I have some sort of influence over these things? You're talking to the wrong person.

It's like the argument for closing train ticket offices - only whatever percentage of travellers use them; except someone crunched the numbers and pointed out how many people it actually was. And rather like smart meters, closure of ticket offices wasn't for the benefit of the actual users.

Apologies if I imputed opinions to you wrongly, but your use of the phrase 'tinfoil hatters' does very much suggest that you are on their side.

You didn't say something like "This is why my employer does it, but you choose whatever option you prefer" - you clearly used a lazy slur to imply that people who disagree with what your employer believes/has communicated to you are stupid and/or crazy.

I'm not on a "side" I just find it baffling that people believe having a smart meter is some kind of massive conspiracy to control us all. To be clear, I don't care if people get one or not, makes no difference to me, but I don't see any negatives to it personally.

Fir enough, then - thanks for clarifying.

But if you were interested in understanding people's personal objections, people have given a lot of reasons - and links - on this thread.

And it's perfectly possible to say that you find other people's concerns unfounded or illogical, without insulting them personally.

Yes, it is.

This you?

"How do you think people successfully manage to spend billions worldwide online every day, paying by cards that have numbers on them?

If somebody just isn't able to grasp that you need to carefully enter numbers and double-check before submitting them, they need much more support than a smart meter can give them. If you routinely mash the keyboard, click 'send' and hope for the best, there's a very easy way to remedy that without the need for any extra tech."

I was responding to a comment that someone made about asking why there is room for error with traditional meters'

"Why is there room for error? You just read the meter and enter it on the website or app. It's not rocket science"

I gave an example of what is room for error.

Have a Smart Meter. Don't have a Smart Meter. Your choice.

Personally I like it. It was not difficult entering readings before but I do like seeing my usage - it's really helped over the last few years and I know exactly what I spend. I pay monthly by variable DD. I know my daily usage and I can see how my monthly usage is going without having to take regular meter readings.

That for me is the reason I like it.

And you are showing links.

I guess you won't be able to show links of people who are perfectly happy because those aren't the kind of stories that generate links.

I'm with Eon. My meter failed about 6 months ago. Eon suggested I had a smart meter replacement. I said no. They fitted a dumb one. Eon write to me every so often asking me to have a smart meter and offering incentives. I just bin the letters and delete the emails.

Eon. It's not every day, they invite you to join, I guess on days when there's high demand on the grid. My neighbour is with Octopus and gets it too. The time can vary but it's almost always around then.

I’m confused what exactly is the point and problem
as you have just said cutting people off remotely or changing to pre payment isn’t the problem then what is

We keep being told that we need smart meters so that we'll use less energy. No I won't. Just having some silly little device won't change my usage at all

It's not a conspiracy but smart meters are purely for the convenience of the electricity companies and the national grid, particularly to enable them to balance the grid and ration supplies if (when?) electricity demand outstrips supply at some future time.

If you find having one useful in the meantime, that's all to the good.

No they absolutely can't force you

Or to incentivise people to use power at different times when demand is lower?

Depending on your perspective.

I haven't personally posted any links, but other PP have.

Nobody is saying that smart meters are useless, nor that lots of people don't like them or aren't happy with them at all.

The issue is that a lot of people do have concerns and misgivings about them - not just the relatively few cases of them catching fire or whatever, but very real features that have been baked into them to allow them to take control in areas where some folk just do not want to cede that control - but we're being pressured at every corner that we must have them, and are told we are utter fools and Luddites if we decline.

If the authorities were confident that everybody would eagerly embrace them and want their benefits, without or in spite of any privacy concerns or other issues, they would make them freely available for people to take their choice, without any threats or scare tactics.

As I said, this is exactly what has happened with smart phones: there have been no campaigns urging everybody to get one, but in the space of just 15 or so years, now almost everybody has got one, through their own personal choice.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11173211/Life-Blackout-Britain-Experts-warn-energy-rationing-winter.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10500391/Poorer-families-face-threat-peak-hours-electricity-rationing.html

No calling anyone a Luddite from me.

TBH, I couldn't see the point in having one a few years ago. I could easily have posted some of the stuff here.

Then as part of a cheap tariff, I had to have one - and personally, having had one for 2 years now, I think it's been great.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11379823/Ministers-war-game-emergency-plans-cope-WEEK-LONG-blackouts.html

I don't wear tinfoil hats as standard but this push for smart meters has made me reach for the designer range. Maybe my issue is with reading the daily mail.

That's not really got much to do with Smart Meters.
It's more electricity demand - and has the UK got enough of an ability to supply the power we need when we need it.
Even people who aren't on Smart Meters will get cut off if that happens.

Still, nice to know the Government are planning for this scenario, just in case

Both those Daily Mail articles are from autumn 2022: many thought that last winter, we might run out of energy.

But it didn't happen.

I really don't see what this has to do with smart meters. We ran out of energy when I was young, there were scheduled blackouts, lasting for several hours at a time. Not a smart meter in sight.

There's a huge, huge energy issue in this country: its use contributes to the climate emergency,
We need to move away from fossil fuels. No one's tackling the enormous expansion needed of green elecricity, and the total overhaul of the National Grid that's needed.

Meanwhile, the simplest change in metering technology is somehow seen as a massive conspiracy.

Words fail me.

If you don't want to know how much enegy you're using, you can choose not to look at your smart meter, or to keep an eye on your online account. Up to you. Having a smart meter really doesn't change anything.

We don't have a smart meter. We don't have mains gas as we live in a rural hamlet. We have some electric storage heaters so use an economy 7 tariff. It's a doddle to read the 2 electricity readings and send them over.

However, my reticence to get a smart meter is based on a couple of factors that I would be grateful if some of the experts here could clarify:

1. I believe they use the mobile phone network to send in the meter readings. Until recently there was no mobile signal on any network here. When I spoke to Ovo a couple of years ago, they said "no problem, we'll link it to your router", which I refused as the broadband signal was also dire (and I would be paying for the privilege). Which mobile phone network do they use now? As a previous poster has also said, the signal in our kitchen where the meter is located is non-existent on any network.
2. Is it possible to have an economy 7-type tariff and a smart meter?

As others have stated, I don't need a consumer device to tell me that turning on the oven costs money. We use timeswitches now to run appliances on the off-peak rate and when I did our readings yesterday, I worked out that 69% of our use in 2023 was off-peak. Can a smart meter do that?