Is it really illegal to refuse to have a smart meter?

[ALongHardWinter]

This is what a friend of a friend told me yesterday. Is it true? My electric company have been sending me letters every few months for the last couple of years urging me to have one installed. So far I've dug my heels in,mainly due to all the horror stories I've heard about them - not working initially,or working initially then suddenly not working. I know at least 6 people who've had them installed that have had problems. Now I get told this!

The allow your supply to be remotely disconnected. Really that's all you need to know. No problem if you trust their billing department and there is no history that they have ever made a mistake.

There is so much misinformation in this thread it's unbelievable

Do tell us what this misinformation is. I'm sure we'd all like to be educated.

I was out the day someone knocked on our door and told DH that we needed a smart meter, here it is, I'll install it now if you like. DH said yes. When I got home I unplugged it and put it in a drawer.
No issues so far!

That isn't a smart meter. You cannot unplug a smart meter!

You unplugged your Smart Meter and put it in your drawer?

Technically - you unplugged the unit that shows the readings. You still have a Smart Meter.

After reading all the post about the marvellousness of Octopus on here I went on their site and asked for a quote.

£ 30 a month more than EoN; who calculate my DD annually to make sure I don't go into debt and who for the last few years have been pretty much spot on.

No thanks.

I'm still refusing one as I have solar panels and am not yet reassured they work with them.

@gamerchick you asked about smart meters becoming prepayment meters. They are fitted to force the customer to pay the debt they owe. The waffle as you put it might alleviate some worries for other people about how the company tries to help customers sort out paying it back.

You said you didn't give a shit about debt, I pointed out that you pay for it, everyone does.

Energy prices do come down if you are on the right tariff, a tariff that can only be offered to you if you have a smart meter ie if you have and charge an electric vehicle you are on a cheaper rate over night. My mate has this. Some tariffs track the rates, again Octopus offer this. Not everyone is just on a day rate meter with only one tariff available.

This is from Full Fact about remote disconnection.

Do smart meters allow energy companies to cut you off remotely? - Full Fact

There are many steps needed to do this - it doesn't just happen.

I presume people on traditional Smart Meters have entered their figures today - as the cost of energy has increased from today - so you need to enter your meter readings to ensure you don't pay too much for your energy.

I mean it is technically possible (and legal) for your energy company to break in to your house and cap or remove your meter. But it doesn't happen a lot.

@cakeorwine actual disconnection isn't done lightly no.
But that isn't so for swapping you to prepayment at the clock of a switch even though they aren't supposed to
I work in this sector and despite the fact that companies are supposed to communicate, give time and discuss in reality we find that customers are dumped onto prepayment at the drop off a hat which is significantly more expensive and makes it even harder/less likely they will catch up with the debt and get out of it.
They often behave unethically!
With the old style meters they can't do that so easily as they have to physically change the meter, with a smart meter it's just software.

Why is there room for error? You just read the meter and enter it on the website or app. It's not rocket science.

121516
vs

125116

And that's how an error happens.

Unless you've never entered a 6 digit number incorrectly?

That's the in home display not the actual meter.

It's a good thing there is a Code of Practice with consequences

Energy suppliers sign up to new Code of Practice on involuntary prepayment installations | Ofgem

• Make at least 10 attempts to contact a customer before a PPM is installed
• Carry out a site welfare visit before a PPM is installed
• Refrain from all involuntary installations for the highest risk customers including:
• Households which require a continuous supply for health reasons, including dependence on powered medical equipment
• People over 85 years of age (if there is no other support in the house)
• Households with residents with severe health issues including terminal illnesses or those with a medical dependency on a warm home (for example due to illness such as emphysema, chronic bronchitis, sickle cell disease)
• Where there is no one within the household that has the ability to top up the meter due to physical or mental incapacity
• Audio or body cameras worn by lead supplier representative present on all warrant installations or site welfare visits to check for vulnerabilities ahead of an involuntary installation or remote mode switch. All audio and footage will be available for audit
• Give a £30 credit per meter (or equivalent non-disconnection period) applied on all warrant installations and remote switches as a short-term credit/measure to remove the risk of customers going off supply
• Re-assess the case once a customer has repaid debts owed. Suppliers must contact the customer to offer assessment of whether a PPM remains the most suitable and preferred payment method of choice for consumers; if any PPM customer is clear of debt and wishes to move off PPM (understanding any changes in the tariff they will pay), the supplier must agree where the customer passes any required credit checks.

That's how things are now. They could be very different very quickly.

Once again if you are confident in an energy companies billing system, and have no evidence it has ever made a mistake then by all means, knock yourself out and have a smart meter in each room if you want.

my company keep calling me and what stuck with me is they said ‘it’s currently free’ which in my mind means they will start charging at some point.whether that to have them installed or just to have them?

It's free in the sense you don't get charged upfront. What the companies do is pass the cost on in the form of higher bills. From the Energy Saving Trust webiste

What will it cost me?

It won’t cost you anything. There is no upfront charge for the installation of a smart meter. Your energy provider will recoup costs through your energy bills over time.

Some energy companies may offer to carry out an energy efficiency inspection of your home when they install your smart meter, but you don’t have to take up any of the recommendations or buy any suggested products.

So 'free,' but not free.

February 2023
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64512612

A magistrate has said he quit after being left unable to check vulnerable people were being protected when energy firms sought warrants to force-fit prepayment meters.
Robin Cantrill-Fenwick said changes to the court system meant magistrates "were doing nothing more than rubber stamping" warrants.
He said the lack of scrutiny is putting vulnerable households at risk.
Ofgem has told suppliers to suspend force-fitting pay-as-you-go meters.
The energy regulator made the announcement after The Times exposed how debt agents for British Gas had broken into vulnerable people's homes to fit meters. Ofgem has also opened an investigation into British Gas.

I keep getting emails for my nanna to have one put in, almost but not quite suggesting they are compulsory. She is in her mid 90s, has dementia and would be absolutely upset and out of sorts for days if not weeks by having someone come to do this. I would have to be there for a random amount of time as you never know when they will turn up, which in itself would be unsettling for her. She doesn't need it so I ignore every email they send.

I have them, they did the electric first and I was reluctant to get the gas done as they changed my tariff to a more expensive one. I waited a couple of years before doing the gas and it was only because my top up card stopped working I decided to have it done so I don't have that issue again - you can do it online

You do realise that it comes from ALL our bills over time?

So thank you for paying a tiny fraction towards my Smart Meter.

Still missing my point then.

I asked if it was possible and you said it was. That's all I wanted to know. Why would I invite possible into my house?

I can't say it any more clearly

October 2023:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67156172
Warrants have been granted to allow the forcible fitting of prepayment meters for the first time in months following a scandal over the practice.
A district judge has given Scottish Power permission to enter homes to fit meters after bills were unpaid.
But nothing will happen until approval has been given by energy regulator Ofgem. No supplier has yet satisfied all the criteria required.
Fitting was halted after agents broke into the homes of vulnerable people.
An investigation by The Times, exposing the actions of agents for British Gas, led to a public outcry.
The courts service also came under criticism for waving through batches of applications from suppliers.

You do realise that it comes from ALL our bills over time?

Seeing as that was the point of my post in the first place - that we ALL pay and they aren't 'free'- I'd have thought that was bloody obvious.

@cakeorwine , there were already laws about what the power companies could do before that new Code of Practice was published.

The power companies just broke them.

Repeatedly.

Even after being fined for previous breaches.