At least 50% of MN 'problems' could be solved

[Wishimaywishimight]

By people actually saying things out loud, and to the appropriate person, instead of seething, being livid or taking to their bed shaking and crying (and writing on MN of course). Sometimes I just find myself saying "FFS"! The sorts of things I mean;

DH keeps taking the (say) newspaper off me. Why? What should I do? Eh, say something? Doesn't have to be confrontational (some people cannot see a middle ground between remaining mute and thumping the other party); "I'm still reading it, I'll give it to you when I'm finished with it" might work.

I give my nieces thoughtful and loving gifts worth £100 each, my DSis gives my children books with half the pages missing. I haven't said anything. How do I deal with (or "navigate" 🙄) this? Um, how about "hey sis, this book has half the pages missing? What's up with that?

My best friend (who I haven't seen in 5 years) has cancelled on me the last 27 times we arranged to meet. Should I say something? (in this case there probably is no need!).

My boyfriend of 7 years says he wants to get married but not until he has more money, a bigger house / penis / job, and can afford to buy me a 10 diamond ring and we can pay for 300 people to attend the wedding. Oh, and only once he sees a unicorn / pig flying. I am 47 and want children. I think he is dragging his heels. Should I say something? (Of course, the usual genius advice is to propose to him because proposing to a man who might as well have a tattoo on his forehead saying "I do not want to marry you" is always going to go well).

27 members of my extended family stayed for Christmas. They all sat down day and night and "demanded" or "expected" that I keep making food and drinks and cleaning up afterwards and changing the beds and providing clean towels and driving them places. I am exhausted (or "on my knees" for dramatic effect). I can't say "no" to anything or they will be upset. I can't face this next year. What should I do?

I have been having chest pains for 2 years, my arms and legs have gone numb and I keep falling down. I don't want to bother the GP. Anyone know what this might be?

Sometimes it's helpful to use Mumsnet as a sounding board before being assertive

YANBU

@LlLlynTegid I'm in Ireland 😁

It's definitely the case that a great deal of issues could be sorted with basic communication. Plus respect and willingness to listen.

Yeh, people just have to go through that process on their own where they figure out that the ONLY solution is often to not let the person's opinion of you 'in'. That is a long road, for most of us. It's taken me years to get to this point and with the person who's hurt me the most (my mother) because I'm not real to her, she decides what I feel, not I. So I have gone through that process of standing firm in my own interpretation of events, prioritising my own evaluation of my behaviour. And this assertiveness did lead to her excluding me. Cold shoulder for 3 and a half years now. Her acceptance was conditional. I was smeared, blamed, excluded, shamed, I had my sanity questioned. And yet, I was ok, I survived that. Time passed and I felt like I was actually healing. So now I do read a lot of mumsnet posts and I feel for people, that they're at the beginning of that learning curve. But I don't want to be 'superior' about it, as I know that that annoyed me when my mother said to me ''I'm worried about you'' because I had a visibly hurt reaction to her projections on to me. in other words, your hurt is NOTHING to do with me. The answer is often ''care less about this, but how do you magic yourself to the point where you care a lot less about x,y &z? It's not an overnight process that 's for sure.

I agree.

I've been doing Institute of Advanced Motorists "observing" for 30+ years and assertiveness is one of the big issues that we need to "teach" to, probably, over half the drivers we observe, male and female, young and old. Far too many drivers dither about which can actually become dangerous, but more often just annoying to other drivers and stops the driver "making progress".

People misunderstand just what assertiveness is, and many think it's aggressive, but it's basically just knowing your rights, knowing what you want, and acting in a confident manner. I must have explained the difference (and given examples) of assertive driving as opposed to aggressive driving, thousands of times over those decades, and so often the result is like a light switch when you see the other person start to understand the difference.

I'm convinced it's why there are so many arguments, i.e. in shops, where one party becomes "aggressive" in some kind of dispute re pricing or faulty goods, etc., rather than being assertive, simply because they don't understand and havn't practised simply knowing your stuff and standing your ground.

When you see assertiveness in action, in a calm, reasoned, manner, it's like a work of art, whether on the road, in a shop, or in someone's house. But the building block of it is confidence in yourself, confidence that you know what you're talking about, know your rights, maybe know the law/rules, etc.

Aggressiveness usually comes into it when you're out of your depth, unsure of what the rules/laws say and it kind of becomes "fight or flight", i.e. you either turn aggressive or you turn into a mouse and slink off licking your wounds.

So, yes, teaching it in schools, maybe as part of drama lessons, as a boost to self confidence would probably make a massive difference to lots of people.

It drives me mad when friends or relatives are exactly like that - they expect the problem to be solved without actually doing something (anything!) to solve said problem 🙄

Very immature behaviour imo. And very tiresome for others.

This is very true! I've given up on being assertive and on letting people know when they have upset me as I've found that most people are completely incapable of accepting that they have done anything wrong. They never apologise, just throw up random times from the past when I have done something to upset them and refuse to discuss the original problem🤔.

My new strategy is just to ignore other people's rude or thoughtless behaviour - it's so much less stressful than having to actually do something about it. Although I'm lucky that my DP, ExH and DCs all have the emotional maturity to talk through any issues with me. Most other people I know have not.

@SirChenjins I agree with regard to the fall out. I could be assertive occasionally but it was always followed by some degree of cold shoulder, that trains you as you grow up. My family created the version of me that was allowed in the family. That version was obliging, accommodating, grateful, positive and she was all of that with a smile. So I have stood firmly in my own interpretation of events on occasion, and that took more than mere ''assertiveness''. It took a do or die crossroads in life decision because I knew that the fallout would be exclusion from my 'tribe'. Abandonment. And I was right, gave a bit of feedback (not criticism, but a request for x,y,z to stop now) and the fallout of that has been that my mother has given me the cold shoulder for over three years, my spineless father has backed her up (and in fact, reprimanded me for ''hurting mum'') and she has smeared me to all and sundry.

So, that was what kept me so meek for so long. I instinctively knew that I had to be strong enough to withstand abandonment before I finally stood really firm in my own self.

Other people out there will allow me to have a self, but as I discussed on another thread recently with a poster whose dad was self-appointed TV DJ, my mother wrote the part I played, she will be the one who decides how I can feel/react and if I don't comply, I will be excluded from the charade she believes is family, while she from up on the cross tells everybody how she's worried about my mental health.

So, yeh, it's not like being assertive with a random bunch of people who have no expectation that you accommodate them. This is people who've only ever known a version of you that puts up and shuts up with a smile staple-gunned on. Any other version of you causes them to have a shame attack, which they will obviously blame you for.

Me too! And I think we are just as bad. Smile and be nice! Say yes to the slice of cake when you want to say no in case you hurt their feelings.

Absolutely, I was socialised to understand, this cannot be discussed. There is one perspective, your mother's. Any attempt to suggest that there is another perspective by ''using your words'' will instantly be met with the cold shoulder because how dare you? Meanwhile my mother felt wronged. She didn't feel abusive meting out the silent treatment again. She only had the capacity to understand her own reality. There really is one perspective. Hers. But she just sees it as the real reality. So with that certainty under her belt, any attempt to ''use words'' is perceived as aggression. And in this environment that was stacked against me, my father and to a degree, brother backed her up!

So, assertiveness was challenging for me. It still is if I'm honest. I tend to let things slide and then when I do finally react it's clear from my voice that i'm really upset when if I'd raised it earlier I could have pulled off the breezy request I was aiming for!

Oh I'm in Ireland too. My mother is Stiff Upper Lip personified. Which is ok, if you can discuss how you feel with somebody or even understand what it is that you feel and why. But because it's all repressed, she has ended up projecting on to me the precise laser cut flaws to disguise her shortcomings. ie, she hadn't the patience or the empathy or the ability to listen to my perspective. She didn't want me to have a ''perspective''. Who did I think I was having a perspective under her roof! So therefore I had to be labelled ''Sensitive''. When I started seeing through the dysfunctional dynamics and trying to use my words, ha ha, I was labelled aggressive. As there can be no discussion. But we can't discuss why there can be no discussion, so, I must be labelled mentally ill for wanting to have a discussion.

I'm honestly surprised I'm doing as well as I am (mental health wise).

If offered a slice of cake by another relative brother would have turned to our mother and said ''am I hungry?'' because he knew that if he reached for the slice of cake before she'd had time to say ''he's not hungry'' there'd be a tut. He seems better able to handle her now. I know that's partly that she didn't press his buttons but it's also the patriarchy! (am I allowed to mention it!) She accepted over the years that he was going to do his own thing, think what he thought, live where he decided to live. She never did that thing with him where she attributed a long list of labels on to him to disguise her short comings.

I think these posts asking for advice are really helpful, the conversation has helped me become more assertive and speak for myself.

as others have pointed out, learned people pleasing behaviour and conflict avoidance can be so ingrained that you don’t even recognise it until you have read 1000’s of posts.

I totally agree OP. The other thing that would help is some understanding that different people do things differently.

There is no value judgement around the timing of meals, names for inanimate objects, preferences for celebrations , use of social media etc.

The amount of feeling snubbed, or perceiving other people being “rude” let alone experiencing mother-in-laws as controlling or “narcs” implies we all live small, petty, insular lives. I don’t and I doubt most of us do.

I think narrow interpretation of things others do, coupled with a lack of willingness to have a conversation about those things really sets people up.

Absolutely, I was socialised to understand, this cannot be discussed. There is oneperspective, your mother's. Any attempt to suggest that there is another perspective by ''using your words'' will instantly be met with the cold shoulder because how dare you? Meanwhile my mother felt wronged. She didn't feel abusive meting out the silent treatment again. She only had the capacity to understand her own reality. There really is one perspective. Hers. But she just sees it as the real reality. So with that certainty under her belt, any attempt to ''use words'' is perceived as aggression

Crikey @ChanelNo19EDT I could have written that myself, only in my case it was my dad. From a very early age I was conditioned by my dad’s silences - any attempt to put my head above the parapet was met by days (and occasionally weeks) of silences, with door slamming and the worst atmosphere imaginable in the house. I lived with the anxiety that this brought on from childhood, constantly watching what I said for fear of bringing on another silence. Unless you have lived with this crippling fear of saying and doing the ‘wrong’ thing (and of course, you learn later that it’s not you and you’re not responsible for your parent’s reaction and behaviour) it’s impossible to understand the effect it has on your ability to speak up for yourself - it’s taken me years to learn how to be more assertive and I’m still pretty rubbish at it.

You have to learn to love your voice.
I was shy and withdrawn as a child, but l worked on myself and now l am assertive and l don't have a problem expressing myself if need be. I am never rude but l don't have a problem with saying No, even if it makes me unpopular.

I'm with you, op. Some people make fuss out of nothing and then engineer offense and play the victim.

The threads that surprise me are the ones about ‘friends’…..’my friend has ignored my calls for the last few months and was unsympathetic when I was in hospital - how can I salvage the friendship?’ ummm you don’t - a friend should be ‘friendly’ or ditch them.

@Wishimaywishimight this is turning into a very interesting thread!!

@ChanelNo19EDT that sounds really tough and is a very good example of why some people find it so hard. My grandmother was like your Mum, I realised many years later how my Mum tiptoed around her and the extent to which all of us constantly worried about displeasing Gran. But I know if my Mum asserted herself properly the fall out would be enormous for all of us, so she shut up and put up. She was overly assertive in other situations, often rude in restaurants and bossy to her employees. She was a very strong independent women with her own business when this was extremely rare in Ireland but yet she could not ever stand up to her mother. She died young so I never got to talk to her about it.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong And not at all what I expected when I posted 😀

Totally agree @Wishimaywishimight
I very often want to type a one word response to the problems posed (and your examples are very apt) - BOUNDARIES! Why are people so afraid to say no, or have the difficult conversations? It's all part of being an adult.

@WhWhatliesbeneath707 I sometimes think just a raised eyebrow would do the trick 😁

@SirChenjins glad you got through it/are getting through it (still). The best thing about mumsnet is that there are people who understand! Not that I'd wish this on anybody.

What's helped me become a little bit more assertive (and I'm not there yet) is knowing that my worst fear, abandonment if you like, it's already happened and I'm ok. I'd like to be more than ok but there's a piece of me missing.

Striving to thrive, and flourish, one day.

I agree OP, it makes you nervous that there is a whole load of friends and family who are silently seething at you in secret.

I have a lovely friend who kept being really late for things. After a couple of bad instances the last one where I had agreed to pick her up where I ended up waiting in the car an extra 25 minutes I USED MY WORDS and said I found it annoying to be kept waiting so often when there wasn't a good reason and could she please make more of an effort to be on time or to let me know if she was running late. I wasn't fuming or cutting, I said it straightforwardly. It was a teeny bit awkward but not too bad at all. We then spent a great day together and she started to be a lot more considerate. Problem solved! No drama, no secret fuming.