Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Well this is a new fucking low....

298 replies

CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 04:41

Tories are now proposing to stop benefit claimant's access to medicines if they have been deemed not doing enough to look for work....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-hate-politics-jobless-prescriptions-b2449412.html

It's not enough to sanction them, so they basically have next to no money to live on. Now they want to take away their access to medicines, some of those will of course be life-saving.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 18/11/2023 18:49

LadyMondegreene · 18/11/2023 18:48

I am one of those genuine claimants that have been talked about a lot on this thread. The "deserving poor" you might say. Hmmph!

In regards to the people who are claiming fraudulently (and I don't doubt they exist) I say this: I DON'T CARE! I really don't give a fuck. If the DWP catch every single one of them, it won't make an iota of difference to me. Or to anyone else.

I mean, what do you think? Will this government use the tiny amount of money saved to target and help those people who are not claiming who are entitled to? No

Will they pay more in benefits to us "deserving" claimants? No

Will they put that money towards the NHS or other public services? No

Childcare? No

Schools? No

Mental health services? No

Will they lower the taxes and/or raise the wages of the hard working people in this benighted country?

No
No
No
No
No

It wont help me and it won't help you. So I ask you - you who are wanking on about how we MUST catch and stop these terrible people - who want to know: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? - Why do you care?

Why?

I can tell you that from my perspective you look like small-minded, jealous, bitter arseholes.

Benefit fraudsters are not taking the tiniest fraction of what the government and their rich backers are taking from this country. You're looking the wrong way.

Get your heads out of your arseholes before it's too late. Because, as others have warned you, when they're done with us, you're next.

Hear, hear.

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 18/11/2023 18:51

LadyMondegreene · 18/11/2023 18:48

I am one of those genuine claimants that have been talked about a lot on this thread. The "deserving poor" you might say. Hmmph!

In regards to the people who are claiming fraudulently (and I don't doubt they exist) I say this: I DON'T CARE! I really don't give a fuck. If the DWP catch every single one of them, it won't make an iota of difference to me. Or to anyone else.

I mean, what do you think? Will this government use the tiny amount of money saved to target and help those people who are not claiming who are entitled to? No

Will they pay more in benefits to us "deserving" claimants? No

Will they put that money towards the NHS or other public services? No

Childcare? No

Schools? No

Mental health services? No

Will they lower the taxes and/or raise the wages of the hard working people in this benighted country?

No
No
No
No
No

It wont help me and it won't help you. So I ask you - you who are wanking on about how we MUST catch and stop these terrible people - who want to know: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? - Why do you care?

Why?

I can tell you that from my perspective you look like small-minded, jealous, bitter arseholes.

Benefit fraudsters are not taking the tiniest fraction of what the government and their rich backers are taking from this country. You're looking the wrong way.

Get your heads out of your arseholes before it's too late. Because, as others have warned you, when they're done with us, you're next.

All of this.

RealOP · 18/11/2023 18:51

SerendipityJane · 18/11/2023 14:30

So for all those who disagree with this, then what is the answer to stop the false claimants?

What's your answer to getting the tax owed from big businesses ?

I'll show you mine when you show me yours.

Besides anything else, this is a false equivalence. There is a world of difference between not putting in your fair share, and actually taking out what you're not entitled to.

LivingDeadGirlUK · 18/11/2023 18:57

RealOP · 18/11/2023 18:51

Besides anything else, this is a false equivalence. There is a world of difference between not putting in your fair share, and actually taking out what you're not entitled to.

Show quote history

Is the world of difference the fact one is done by people who are extremely wealthy and the other is done by people who are not?

I know which one I think is more shameful.

Frequency · 18/11/2023 19:00

RaininSummer · 18/11/2023 18:31

I am not getting into whole discussion but without a fit note the UC service can't just take somebody's word that they have autism, bipolar etc and lots of people with these conditions do work.

I agree but I don't agree that people should be financially sanctioned while they are waiting for a formal diagnosis (and actually very few people with BPD or autism manage to hold down long-term employment).

DD is fortunate to have me, her nan, and her sister who will all support her and fight for her but others like her, without that support network, stand no chance.

Even with me fighting her corner it has taken almost 6 years and numerous suicide attempts to even begin the process of an actual diagnosis. If it is autism and not BPD it's been even longer. I've been fighting to get her proper mental health support since she was 6 years old. She's now 20.

How long do we think is acceptable for sufferers to be financially sanctioned while they are waiting to get the correct support?

There has to be a better way. I don't know what that is but the system as it stands is not working.

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 18/11/2023 19:01

TorringtonDean · 18/11/2023 15:00

It’s not taking away medicines. It’s taking away free prescriptions. That’s only if they don’t engage with help for getting them back to work. Having purpose in your life and meeting people through work, plus the income it brings you, is good for mental health.

How patronising. You sound like one of those people who think all that people with illnesses/disabilities need to improve their wellbeing is a spot of good honest toil.

RaininSummer · 18/11/2023 19:02

If your young person can't manage their affairs well, have you considered becoming their appointee as this will remove work expectations and chance of sanctions?

pointythings · 18/11/2023 19:05

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 18/11/2023 19:01

How patronising. You sound like one of those people who think all that people with illnesses/disabilities need to improve their wellbeing is a spot of good honest toil.

Show quote history

You see, when I read that post, my first thought would have invoked Godwin. But I chose to ignore instead because it's such utter ableist selfish Tory bollocks.

Frequency · 18/11/2023 19:06

RaininSummer · 18/11/2023 19:02

If your young person can't manage their affairs well, have you considered becoming their appointee as this will remove work expectations and chance of sanctions?

I've not heard of this other than with her GP.

UC has not mentioned it. She's given me permission to make phone calls to them on her behalf and fill in forms but she still has to attend the appointments when her sick note runs out. And she still has to speak to the GP at least once a month to get that sick note (I can order her prescriptions and do her weekly wellness checks with him)

RaininSummer · 18/11/2023 19:21

Hi Frequency, you can ask to be her appointee for UC. There may be a home visit to check all is in order etc (safeguarding) and complete forms.

RaininSummer · 18/11/2023 19:23

Also if she is submitting fit notes, she should be assessed for work capability. You should be sent a uc50 form after a month of if fit notes. After this assessment you will not need to keep providing the fit notes.

SerendipityJane · 18/11/2023 19:23

All is clear. This is another matey matey fast lane way to skim more money from the taxpayer.

They should have said this from the start. If there's one thing MNetter hate more than benefit scroungers, it's fat benefit scroungers.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/18/obesity-jab-maker-data-to-profile-benefits-claimants

Revealed: obesity jab maker discussed targeting benefit claimants with UK government

Drug firm Novo Nordisk proposed singling out those most likely to return to work with its weight-loss injection

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/18/obesity-jab-maker-data-to-profile-benefits-claimants

Frequency · 18/11/2023 19:26

@RaininSummer

Thank you. I will mention it next time we go. They have acknowledged she is unable to work. She doesn't have to apply for work but due to lack of a long-term unfit note or diagnosis, she has to do a "pathway to employment" and has to attend appointments with a work coach as part of that.

Echobelly · 18/11/2023 19:32

@LadyMondegreene is absolutely right - 'false claimants' are really not costing the country that much and, as she says, even if the government were to recoup all the money they wouldn't do anything socially positive with it.

A system that basically treats anyone who needs benefits as a lazy liar by default (as the current system does) is expensive as well as cruel. This also means it's a system that does a lot to punish people who don't deserve it and nothing to help people who are really trying their best. When people are out of work but have sensible ideas as to what might help - maybe training, perhaps a business idea that might fill a local need but they'll need funding for - the system offers nothing. No 'Here's a grant to start your business', no 'if you train for that job that we have a skills shortage for we'll pay benefits while you do so', no 'we'll give you free/subsidised childcare while you take that course at university to improve your qualifications'. .

Yes, I may be living in cloud cuckoo land but on the other hand, we have access to so much data now - it would not be beyond the wit of man to, for example, analyse what skills are lacking in each locality and incentivise people to train in those skills with a guaranteed job at the end as long as they pass muster, and offer bonuses for staying in those roles a minimum period to minimise drop-outs. No need to treat people like shit for being out of work.

jgw1 · 18/11/2023 19:34

Readingineading · 18/11/2023 18:35

I call bollocks. What type of benefits?

Show quote history

How old is Boris? He hasn't done a days work in his life and seems to live of handouts from other people.

SerendipityJane · 18/11/2023 19:37

This also means it's a system that does a lot to punish people who don't deserve it

The problem is - as this thread shows in spades - is there are quite a few people who feel they do deserve it.

The rich man in his castle
The poor man at his gate
The lord God put them there
And ordered their estate

Now you may bot have sung that hymn at school. But it seems plenty did. And remembered it.

NettleTea · 18/11/2023 19:40

Echobelly · 18/11/2023 19:32

@LadyMondegreene is absolutely right - 'false claimants' are really not costing the country that much and, as she says, even if the government were to recoup all the money they wouldn't do anything socially positive with it.

A system that basically treats anyone who needs benefits as a lazy liar by default (as the current system does) is expensive as well as cruel. This also means it's a system that does a lot to punish people who don't deserve it and nothing to help people who are really trying their best. When people are out of work but have sensible ideas as to what might help - maybe training, perhaps a business idea that might fill a local need but they'll need funding for - the system offers nothing. No 'Here's a grant to start your business', no 'if you train for that job that we have a skills shortage for we'll pay benefits while you do so', no 'we'll give you free/subsidised childcare while you take that course at university to improve your qualifications'. .

Yes, I may be living in cloud cuckoo land but on the other hand, we have access to so much data now - it would not be beyond the wit of man to, for example, analyse what skills are lacking in each locality and incentivise people to train in those skills with a guaranteed job at the end as long as they pass muster, and offer bonuses for staying in those roles a minimum period to minimise drop-outs. No need to treat people like shit for being out of work.

I dont think you are in cloud cuckoo land.

Back in 2006 I had just finished my degree and had a newborn, as well as a child on DLA due to a lifelong progressive illness.

In 2007 I was offered training and support to start a business, including free nursery funding for my son, and was lucky to get him into a beautiful country forest school type setting which was paid in full.

VikingVolva · 18/11/2023 19:48

No, we didn't sing that hymn at school, because the lyrics are

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate.

Note the commas - the original meaning was that God made both the "high" and the "lowly" ie we are all God's creatures irrespective of position.

Which makes it all the more wrong to put new barriers in the way of access to medicines, and to assume that the sick are malingerers.

Long covid, sequelae of covid, and length of NHS waiting times leaving people unwell for longer before intervention, are all taking their toll on the overall health of the public.

WrongSwanson · 18/11/2023 19:56

HappySammy · 18/11/2023 09:00

That really is low. Ethical issues aside, it wouldn't save money. Medicine is a preventative measure. Where do they think people will end up if they can't access medicine and their condition becomes a medical emergency?

Quite. If I dont have my medicine for a few days I would end up in ICU for months

I don't claim benefits (despite being entitled) because the whole system sounds such a nightmare and I am lucky enough to have a supportive employer and a well paid job . But most people with my condition do have to claim and many are unable to work despite longing to be able to.

user1471538283 · 18/11/2023 20:05

I thought this might be next. The Tories do not care. They don't care about anyone except themselves.

Original poster
CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 20:40

Livelovebehappy · 18/11/2023 09:22

Genuine benefit claimants, who can’t work, have nothing to worry about here. This is aimed at the people who are deemed fit to work who are putting in zero effort to find a job. People aren’t reading it properly, and as usual are catastrophising the situation. The government have to do something, whether it is the Tories, or a future Labour government. Soon there will be more people on benefits than working the way things are going…..

You obviously do not understand the benefit system. At all.

OP posts:
Original poster
CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 20:43

Babyghirl · 18/11/2023 09:23

I agree with the benefits end, I know a 40 year old never worked a day in there lives had a two week holiday in the summer and now away again for a week, where away for 3 nights in the UK in Sept, and away for 5 nights at the start of Dec, so yes it pisses me off someone who doesn't work can have a life like this, and there's not a thing wrong with them either, so can work but choose not to cause they have a better life living of the tax payers.

On £370 a month? Wow, they must be really good at budgeting during a Cost of Living crisis.

OP posts:
CesareBorgia · 18/11/2023 20:44

CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 20:43

On £370 a month? Wow, they must be really good at budgeting during a Cost of Living crisis.

Show quote history

Obviously this poster must know the circus acrobat mentioned upthread 😄

Original poster
CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 21:07

IClaudine · 18/11/2023 10:08

Also re: PIP. If PIP becomes linked to ability to work how does this affect people who work and get PIP? Could this mean that PIP for working people will be eventually phased out?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the way they are going.

OP posts:
Original poster
CherryMyBrandy · 18/11/2023 21:19

@Livelovebehappy

"Whilst this is a very sad case, the fact that it went to the papers shows it was an isolated incident, where the poor man had obviously slipped through the net. There will clearly be incidences like this, but rare. There’s shit service across the board atm from NHS and government departments. I would guess if someone is appealing against a PIP/benefit decline, that the suspension of free prescriptions etc would be paused pending the outcome of an appeal. I just think people on here are scaremongering amongst people who this will not affect. Genuine claimants who are currently on benefits and are not being asked to look for work are not the target group here."

No it's not an isolated incident. You would be very wrong in that assumption:

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2021/may/82-benefit-claimants-have-died-after-some-alleged-dwp-activity-such-termination

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/claimant-deaths-still-linked-systemic-flaws-benefits-system-dwp-document-shows

www.rethink.org/campaigns-and-policy/campaign-with-us/stop-benefit-deaths/

I also wouldn't assume that suspension of access to medicines would be suspended in the event of a benefit appeal. We don't even know at the moment if there will be any rights to appeal the suspension of access to healthcare.

And you are naive if you don't think this will affect "genuine claimants" (Whatever that means, because it will only affect genuine claimants. This isn't a measure to tackle fraudulent claimants). DWP make errors constantly. One thing you can absolutely guarantee is that any system of sanction in the benefits system WILL affect "genuine claimants". Because DWP will get it wrong.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread