Well this is a new fucking low....

[CherryMyBrandy]

Tories are now proposing to stop benefit claimant's access to medicines if they have been deemed not doing enough to look for work....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-hate-politics-jobless-prescriptions-b2449412.html

It's not enough to sanction them, so they basically have next to no money to live on. Now they want to take away their access to medicines, some of those will of course be life-saving.

And I am very sure that you haven't grown up in such a lifestyle, I can tell that straight off from your point of view on this subject. If you had grown up in the environment that I've grown up in, you'd know fine well that there are people gaming the system.

I don't think anyone wants there to be people who are able to work but just don't. But this is a cost/benefit analysis and the plans being mooted mean that the majority of people sanctioned would end up being those who had done no wrong. I'd rather a few people got away with it than that many got unfairly sanctioned, with all the consequences that brings.

I am also more inclined to believe the actual research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation on the number of multi-generational workless families than one internet random's anecdata.

Stop ?

What makes you think it's started ?

Why not ? We're already gearing up to remove citizens protections from the state.

It is a new low considering nearly 15 billion went on useless ppe, storage and failed contracts that went to their mates. Persecution of benefit claimants is always a tory thing. I'm old enough to remember when single mothers were blamed for all the country's ills.

What does that mean 'forced medical interventions'?

It seems to me we could actually do with some forced medical interventions. Aren't a lot of people off sick, who would be able to work, if they could get the medical treatment they needed in a timely manner instead of waiting for ages in agony. I'm guessing that's not what you meant though.

And also all these people living the life on benefits, how does that even work? Aren't you sanctioned if you don't look for work?

Sanctions were target driven if I remember correctly rather on a case basis. Persecution of the vulnerable and poor.

If you start with the "fact" (remember how good Tories are at having their own facts) that 99% of benefit claimants are on the fiddle then it stands to reason (again, Tories have their own "reasoning" as this thread shows) that 99% of them can be sanctioned.

Job done. Trebles all round.

If you had grown up in the environment that I've grown up in, you'd know fine well that there are people gaming the system.

Of course there are people gaming the system. Many of them wear suits and sit in lawmakers’ chambers, changing the law to suit themselves on whim. Those at the bottom of society are often merely trying to survive and are doing far less damage by following their example. The ones who are being mugs are those of us in the middle, knowing we have to follow rules in a society of millions for best outcomes, knowing that we’re being taken advantage of on all sides, knowing that we’re on our own. And still the first of those three knowings applies.

I wish! No, I meant forcing people to go through procedures and/or take medications they don't want. Like this weight loss drug. It works for some but has some pretty horrendous side effects for others. Some people really don't want it. Are they working towards removing informed consent?

I have never once said there are not people gaming the system. I actually worked in a benefits related job for a few years.

I am just trying to illustrate the utter futility of employing a stick approach. If it worked, why are there still people gaming the system? Why haven't any of the other sticks deployed over the years done anything except cause suffering to and even the death of innocent people?

And where's all this medical intervention? Good luck trying to cure the disabilities I have that my consultants have told me there's no cure or treatment for.

If people who are not disabled don't want to work that's fine. It doesn't mean they should be paid to stay home not working from tax payers. I stay home not working but I have invested well and have a passive I come allowing me to do so and to pay tax. I don't think I should be paid benefits to stay home.

Ah bugger sorry! Mind you the thought is still the same! If someone is claiming when they shouldn't, dob em in :-)

Appalling. Especially as so many are unable to work because they are actually waiting for treatment, and medication like strong painkillers are only required because they have been waiting 18 months for surgery. And they are waiting that long because the Tories have fucked up the NHS.

So much of this narrative of 'getting people out to work' is dependent on the premise that there even enough jobs to go around in the first place. There aren't, and lots of conditions govern people's lives to the extent that it just isn't possible for them to be the most attractive candidate among the umpteen applications employers receive for practically every job nowadays. The playing field is tilted against them from the start.

This seems blindingly obvious to me, but so many people talk about 'getting' people with conditions out to work as though the whole issue hinges on whether they are willing to work or not. So many people really do want to work but need accommodations many workplaces aren't willing to offer. (I'm speaking from personal experience here btw, I work full time but due to various issues this is only possible for me because I'm allowed a fully home-based, flexible schedule. )

Most of the time to hear the Tories (and many of their followers) speak, you get the impression they have absolutely zero understanding of chronic health issues and think hauling oneself up by the bootstraps is all that's needed. It's naive in the extreme and the reason they don't try to shift their mindset is that they don't actually give a shit what happens to those at the bottom of the pile. (I was about to make a darker speculation there but have refrained as I can't prove my point in any way - it doesn't stop me speculating, though.)

The situation won't change until workplaces become more accommodating towards those who need it.

Why do people keep bringing up these sorts of arguments as if everyone with autism and bipolar disorder were identical? Sure, lots of people with those conditions do work, very successfully. But how easy do you think it is to get work if you are moderately severely autistic, with limited expressive and receptive communication, a very short attention span, no qualifications, and a major difficulty coping with transitions and change?

Wow, that's one clichéd (and nasty) set of assumptions you have there.

@EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon is it really nasty? If people are willing to look for work, or take work when offered, or alternatively provide medical evidence if unable to work then they will still get free prescriptions. That’s my understanding. If they are not willing to cooperate for whatever reason then they will not.

As someone who is employed, myself a lone parent who has struggled to hold it all together at times and who has juggled a lot of childcare and costs to keep working, I think that is fair. I don’t have a choice about paying taxes and think everyone is obliged to do what is required if expecting benefits.

There is a big labour shortage at present. Finding jobs is not so hard. But the numbers out of work have risen since Covid. If they are all truly too ill to work, then fine. They can prove that and get support. But there will always be some scamming the system.

@TorringtonDean do you acknowledge the error rate in DWP decisions around who is and is not able to work? And if you do, are you OK with the very real prospect that the majority of those sanctioned will have done no wrong and will be thrown into hardship through government incompetence?

Your talk smacks of 'well, I can do it, so everyone else can too'. Oh how beautifully simple your life must be.

I should also mention that it isn't as simple as the availability of jobs and shortages of labour, as anyone not hard of thinking should be able to work out.

My DS is currently taking a year out from university. He receives high rate PIP for both aspects. He also works 22.5 hours a week. He has hypermobility, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, autism and depression, and uses a wheelchair. He's doing brilliantly. Now you might think this is a case of 'well, if he can do it, anyone can'.

But he has an employer who is genuinely serious about making appropriate adjustments to the work he does, an employer who is flexible around his needs, an employer who is willing to adapt the mandatory training to suit him and the impact of his disabilities on his work environment. Jobs and employers like his are like hens' teeth.

It isn't as simple as 'oh, there are lots of jobs'. There are not enough jobs which work for people who have physical and/or mental ill health issues. There are not enough employers willing to take people like this on and genuinely give them the opportunities they need. And that is the problem that needs to be addressed. Yes, work is good for people. My DS has absolutely blossomed. But the jobs have to be the right ones and the employers have to play their part.

You're a very lucky person @TorringtonDean. I hope you're aware of it.

Its sickening... Okay so someone with mental health who regardless or what( Mr and Mr Power trip aka Hunt and Stride Spit their dummies out stamp their feet and demand) really are not mentally fit for work or to even be looking for work. They run amock and people and up getting seriously hurt or worse all because they couldn't get their medication, because it could very easily happen. Are their (Hunt and Strides) heads going to be on the chopping block, after all they stopped a seriously mentally ill person from getting their vital medication!Also where are the Human rights brigade in all this.
However I bring no hope as I know for a fact they'll get voted back in. It doesn't matter what they do as I've alluded to many times over. The British Public are in awe of the Tories, they're going nowhere, ever!
Would much even change under Labour anyway. What do they think about this disgusting policy.

How do you know so much about your Cousins neighbours sister's friend
That's more distant than the monkeys uncle.