Well this is a new fucking low....

[CherryMyBrandy]

Tories are now proposing to stop benefit claimant's access to medicines if they have been deemed not doing enough to look for work....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-hate-politics-jobless-prescriptions-b2449412.html

It's not enough to sanction them, so they basically have next to no money to live on. Now they want to take away their access to medicines, some of those will of course be life-saving.

This. I used to be so angry but now I'm just tired.

I work in mental health and so he asked me to assist him with the benefit claim for depression. In regards to the bad back, I was too young when he first started claiming to have even been aware of how the beneift system etc worked however he would openly tell you he was on it for "his back".

Why do you ask?

So for all those who disagree with this, then what is the answer to stop the false claimants? Those who choose to not work for reasons such as - refusing to work so they don’t have to pay child support. There are plenty of those around. Why should they be supported for the majority of their working lives in claiming benefits despite no reason not to work.
there is always a percentage of people who will chose to not work, how would you suggest that they are encouraged out of the benefit ‘lifestyle’ if not cracking down on them?

On another thread where this stuff about generations of families having never worked someone posted a link to show that this is not any where near as common as is portrayed.

So for all those who disagree with this, then what is the answer to stop the false claimants?

What's your answer to getting the tax owed from big businesses ?

I'll show you mine when you show me yours.

I think the answer is we have to accept that a small number of people will always abuse whatever system, and that making everyone's life harder and nastier is never the answer. It will be the innocent tgat suffer, as the people who are professional benefit cheats will get around whatever system is implemented.

you are just refusing to answer the question. I am not saying we shouldn’t be getting the tax from big business, I am asking why we shouldn’t be stopping false claims. It is not a one thing beats another. You can challenge one aspect before the next you know.

He is a decent man ie he's not a criminal, not antisocial, will help his family etc. However he is workshy and has been the entire time I've known him. Some people are just workshy. I don't particularly like working, could think of a million other things I'd like to be doing! But I do work.

Yes, let's close all the "legal" tax "loopholes" which the rich and their accountants exploit. That would save us far more money.

No reason at all.

But the premise that the rise in sickness benefits has to be due to an increase in malingering is badly flawed, given the effects of long covid and the increase of other conditions that have increased as a consequence of covid (stroke, other cardiovascular conditions, neurological issues, metabolic and immune system disorders)

Because the benefit cheats posted about on MN are always so very open about their cheating and I wondered if this was the case here.

How do you know he is not depressed?

It's possible he's said he has depression or a bad back when the reality is he has something he's embarrassed about. I mean who wants people to know they have problems with their bowels?

What the actual?

Just more reasons to never vote Tory.

I think the answer is we have to accept that a small number of people will always abuse whatever system, and that making everyone's life harder and nastier is never the answer.

There is a general principle in science and engineering that you can make a system proof against accidental actions. However it's impossible to make it proof against deliberate malice.

The low energy thinking being deployed by some on here (and I suspect not in good faith) is the sort of logic that says we should remove the emergency brake pull from trains because someone once misused it.

It's not the poors fault that over 13 years the Tories have made the benefits system (and the tender system) so piss poor that it can't even detect fraud.

A serious answer would be to fund the system properly so fraudulent applicants can easily be spotted. Not reduce the system so no one gets anything.

Presumably your answer to inflation caused by using leaves as currency is deforestation ? What colour is your wheel ?

He is a decent man ie he's not a criminal, not antisocial, will help his family etc. However he is workshy and has been the entire time I've known him. Some people are just workshy. I don't particularly like working, could think of a million other things I'd like to be doing! But I do work

He's workshy but he cared for his disabled mother for 12 years carrying out physically and mentally demanding tasks?

But you assisted with his benefit claim after his mum died, so you must know what health condition is claiming for? Or are you now admitting that you don't know what health condition he has been and is claiming for and that he might actually be genuine? Which, if he has claimed sickness benefits for decades, he most probably is.

TigerRag was your uncle not claiming benefits whilst looking after his mum?

How do I know he's not depressed? Well first of all, I know him pretty well. And I have previously worked as an assessing clinician in a crisis team, so I do know the general signs to look out for.... So there could be a small chance that I'm wrong and that he's pretending that he's not depressed and that he's fine, to save face. However there is a much greater chance that I'm right and he's not depressed based off my observations along with the questions that he was asking me when he was applying for his benefits.

Obviously that's not the case for everyone and the majority of those who are claiming are genuinely unwell/unable to work. However there are chancers, and growing up in a community like I did, where generations of families would struggle to find one employed family member between them, you'd know that.

But i guess that you're inferring that you're right and that the man that you don't know from Adam, is genuinely depressed and he did genuinely have a bad back for all those years preventing him from working and I'm wrong? OK.

But the premise that the rise in sickness benefits has to be due to an increase in malingering is badly flawed, given the effects of long covid and the increase of other conditions that have increased as a consequence of covid (stroke, other cardiovascular conditions, neurological issues, metabolic and immune system disorders)

Can't we pass a law saying that long covid is a wokerati plot ?

If we prioritise caring for people, we’ll include some of your undeserving poor in the net.

If we prioritise “cracking down”, we end up with more David Clapsons.

You choose the latter, I choose the former.

Does this really shock a single person at this point?

What is it going to take for people to actually stop voting for them?

Obviously that's not the case for everyone and the majority of those who are claiming are genuinely unwell/unable to work. However there are chancers, and growing up in a community like I did, where generations of families would struggle to find one employed family member between them, you'd know that.

I don't believe you.

I live in one of the most deprived areas in the country and I don't know a single family where multiple generations have never worked.

A fairly robust study by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation also struggled to find these mythical families where no one has ever worked

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/are-cultures-worklessness-passed-down-generations#:~:text=A%20new%20JRF%20study%20investigates,entrenched%20worklessness%20in%20the%20UK.

Oddly, there are always a handful of posters on threads like this who know dozens of them

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/18/minister-warned-about-mental-pressure-of-benefits-system-after-applicant-kills-himself

If noting else, stories like this are a great way to filter cunts out of your life.

Like "I'm not racist, but .."