Has this place become even more batshit than ever recently?

[TheLongpigs]

I know places change and there are seasons, but having read the bitchy, judgey, snobby and entitled replies on curtains and cruises in the last 24 hours, I wonder what's going on.

There's no humour behind these posts - just blatant nastiness. People increasingly seem to revel in saying things they'd never ever utter in real life.

Even as I write this I'm aware that there are thoughtful, hilarious, supportive and intelligent corners of MN, but it's hit and miss finding them these days.

It is not a self help group though, it is a chat forum. Some posts are made-up, still don't know why, unless writers are hired by mums net - I'd even say 50% are. Why do people go on about safe-space etc they'd find a group more relevant to their issue.

Nah, I do think that most are women.

There is a kindof competitive womaning that some women do once they become mothers, wives or homeowners. Like domestic "pick-me" girls.

I still believe the 'real' MN posters are more or less ok. But increasingly, on every thread, there are posters who, in my view, lurk to play a nasty game: how quickly can I wind up the OP with maximum possible spite? It's always obvious to me who they are - very often amongst the first responders as noted up-thread. And the OP gets upset, sometimes devastated, by the utter meanness directed at her. I always feel protective and want to say 'OP that's not a real perspective on what you've said, pls ignore'.

It's the kind of thing where if an OP posts 'I was walking down the street and a piano fell on me' the posters will reply 'why are you walking down streets/ why can't you bounce a piano off you/why are you a music hater...'. Utterly horrible and totally nuts.

How do we warn/protect OPs from this? We need a name for the spiteful lurkers

In an interview on the news someone said much of the debate about the Middle East situation comes from Til-Tok -a Chinese owned media source, on another they stated that Russian bots posted all over the net mostly negative comments to destabilise western society.
With the speed of AI and computers and the number of English speakers in the world,any of which can post on here it’s prob not surprising some stuff is a wind up.

I know. Everyone has become rude, miserable and critical about EVERYTHING! It's really depressing.

Thanks for bringing this up Thelongpigs I agree with you. The curtain thread was horrible it was obvious this lady was just needing a bit of advice on her new home (got the feeling this house was a move up for her and we had no idea on her story). Then a certain contingent here tore the lady apart from questioning the cost/quality of curtains to mocking her windows. Why? What exactly did they get out of it? To me it highlighted since Covid people have become more selfish and in some cases downright nasty. Hope the lady is enjoying her new home and taking no notice on some of comments on her thread.

Twitter/X is worse. You can't say that oranges are orange without some sad troll ripping the out of you.

I don't like bitching so avoid the bitchy threads although I had to say something about the "playing the victim" thread. I don't argue with other posters or try to prove my point either. We all have freedom of speech and sometimes that can be negative as well as positive.

The "tenants taking drugs" post was really funny and I wish there were more threads like that.

I agree that this is happening. I am genuinely concerned about the health of our democracy because of it.

I don't know what the answer is.

Honestly, I think that MN has always been quite nasty and judgy! Why I join for a while, then Usually take a break. However there are occasional good and interesting posts.

As a PP said it’s the nasty or dismissive “killer” first reply that is especially galling. Usually it’s some cynical, overly-opinionated or smart-arse comment.

I’m not sure MN is a place for sensitive souls.

Interesting, but not quite clear. Do you mean “how judgy, dismissive, moral, know-ally can I come across?” A sort of Karen-type thing?

There is a lot of rudeness and that's always been an internet problem but there's also a lot of sheer stupidity eg people not thinking for themselves which is also nothing new. I think generally there's an increase in selfishness.

What is new (I think) is people's sensitivity in terms of being hurt or offended, their willingness to share their problems.

There also sometimes seems to be a sense of entitlement which also enrages the keyboard warriors.

Whether any of it is justified is beside the point, it's here to stay.

I don’t understand the question. Do you mean what evidence I have that more Mners struggle with relationships and communication?

Well, aside from the onslaught of lengthy threads about loneliness and friendlessness, there are the ones where the most minor thing becomes evidence of a ‘clique’ or an ‘exclusion’, the endless ones where an obvious minor misunderstanding could be cleared up by asking a straight question, but the OP can’t/won’t, the endless threads by secretly resentful people-pleasers asking why they have no friends when they do everything for other people and then claiming everyone else is a CF, the ones who think the obvious response to an argument or a relationship disappointment is to go NC, the ones playing out their own schooldays trauma on their children’s social life, the ones that use the word ‘friend’ to mean ‘someone I follow on SM and don’t like much’, the endless rivalries about bridesmaids and hen parties, the people who view a wedding invitation to a place or at a time they can’t manage as a major insult, the people who regard a ring at their door as an act of war etc etc etc.

And yes, some of this probably also plays out as unpleasantness online, because these posters are bad communicators who see insults in the most innocuous exchange, or are consciously taking out their anger and loneliness anonymously online.

But to me ‘nastiness’ is less visible than ‘people who struggle with relationships’.

And (like other posters) I have learnt from the past, never to post when you are really in a “bad place”. I have ended up in tears, drinking wine and feeling totally wretched after a genuine post, especially when vulnerable in the past. I remember years ago posting about my son’s difficulties with writing. I was accused of being a terrible mother etc., it was both horrible and bizarre. The rare times I do start a thread nowadays I re-read several times to make sure there isn’t some irrelevant detail an idiot will home in on and attack me for. But the dismissive nasties will still find a way to home in.

But mostly I take long breaks, I’m probably due one now in fact ….

I agree. Its always been like this, way before covid happened. I take regular breaks and did so even prior to covid due to the rudeness.

I think its a combo of people being very narrow minded (not being able to perceive in their tiny minds that anyone could dare to live differently to them and have different circumstances/tastes/views) along with the usual keyboard courage of anonymity that makes people behave like dicks.

If I feel a bit sensitive about anything, I stay away from MN for this exact reason.

I’ve learned a lot from Mumsnet over the years to do with education, women’s rights, money etc, so it’s useful for that. I don’t think I would ever post from a really low place unless it was for specific information. I also name change regularly.

The bitchiness isn’t limited to here though. I posted on a work related forum years ago about coming back to work after children, and found my whole marriage being dissected and criticised! It was brutal.

Some responses are gratuitously nasty, I agree. Some subjects do need straight-talking though. (Not curtains! I thought they were fine those curtains, nicer than mine.)

Worse than that, though, is reaction by OPs and PPs to gentle teasing. I’ve seen loads of tantrumy replies when a poster’s just poked a bit of fun. The lack of humour on here is the most depressing part. It was funnier in the past.

And worst of all is the Obstinate OP: they start a thread, get disagreed with - politely but firmly - and then chuck their toys out of the pram, often ending with a go at victimhood and “I’m going to ask for this thread to be deleted, it’s so horrible”.

Did the curtain thread kick off ? The one I’m thinking of seemed fairly innocuous. A poster was asking why her newly-hung curtains looked wrong.

Undoubtedly that exists but in my personal experience I have found them to be a tiny minority.

Maybe I am just lucky or maybe I have good picking! 😂

You are not wrong OP. Over a decade ago my Saturday night used to be me with a bottle of wine and my laptop, reading/ posting on funny threads and laughing til my sides hurt. There was also some really thoughtful advice, light-hearted banter and good political debates. Now it's 20 cunts for every normal person.

We need a name for the spiteful lurkers

How about ‘Stinky Sock Puppets?’

And the poor woman got hundreds of posts saying the curtains were too beige, too bland, too short, not gathered enough, floor length was the only way to go, she had no taste etc. etc. And they were all taking themselves so bloody seriously! It would be almost funny, looked at from a distance, and certainly an object lesson on nonsense non-sequitur triggers for abuse.

I shall never post about buying a washing line. I am almost certain to get poison pen replies along the lines of ‘HoW DAre u buY a RoTtaRY L1ne u evl criME agenSt Style & DesigN and the Enviroment’ followed by ‘they’re illegal in the US ya know’.

I jest. Slightly.

‘they’re illegal in the US ya know’. Unless, like me, you live in a "right to dry" state, although I've never been brave enough to actually hang washing outside.

On the subject at hand, I do think it's nastier these days. I have been on MN for over 12 years, and it is definitely less sympathetic and supportive overall. It is also far less witty and amusing. I miss that most of all.

It's definitely become more common for people to be accused of being men because they express a view that is somehow 'incorrect', ie, not what a real woman would say and therefore somehow impermissible. I guess the people who do it don't know the meaning of ad hominem or why using it is bad. I guess they also don't know that men are entitled to use Mumsnet or they do know and don't like it, even though men are also parents.

I'm a man who has posted on Mumsnet for fifteen years, but I rarely do so now because I feel the environment, on the main boards, has become way more hostile towards men. I think that the idea that a cohort of men are taking over the discussion and bullying others doesn't have any basis in fact and the idea that the environment is worse because men are on here in greater numbers is delusional.

The curtain thread was horrible.

But at another thread was a post from someone with not a great childhood saying well done to all the mums on here, she couldn’t believe seeing how much everyone cared for their children and admired them.

It was quite moving. That sort of thread (and the perfect sick bowl) are what keep me here.