Anyone else seen as kind of out of time, childlike etc?

[colemanjin]

I am mid 40's and I feel like I have never fitted in anywhere, I think that people like me well enough and at times I've even been considered popular but always kind of odd. At school I never fitted into any group, I was friendly with everyone but not close to anyone at school in particular kind of a loner.

At university I did have friends but still didn't ever seem to fit in with a group I didn't get a place in halls and the people in halls all seemed to socialise together and everyone else was from the city where the university was so they all had their own friendship groups already. I ended up living with a family for a year as a lodger then living in random flats with much older people until my final year when I girl on another course offered me a room in her flat but I was so busy with my studies and by then their friendship groups were forged and then when I left university I went back to my home town.

I have had boyfriends from my mid teens but the majority of them seemed to find me kind of uncool and unsophisticated even if they found me attractive and some would even try to change how I dressed or acted to make me more suitable. It has been from men I'd heard things like I am whimsical, childlike, innocent etc. I don't really know why. I don't drink although I did in my mid teens experiment with alcohol before giving it up entirely at 18. I've been to clubs, taken pills, had a few one night stands, lived abroad on my own, I have a masters degree all quite adult things if not always wise and yet I still get seen as something I am not sure I am. I think it is possibly the not drinking, I am not really into going out to pubs and clubs never have although I experimented with it all just to try it I just didn't enjoy it much. I know I went out with guys though that felt frustrated that their girlfriend was such a weirdo.

I am married now and my mil really took to me because I wasn't "corrupted" by the badness in the world (she is lovely but quite religious) its like a vibe I give off and for some people they like it but I feel like other people see me as something I am not.

Some of the women I know will call me up to go out for tea and cake or to the ballet but they don't invite me to parties and while I am quite introverted I'm not shy.

I also don't especially mind not being invited but what I do wonder about is how I am seen as being kind of a square peg, old fashioned, childlike, unsophisticated, not your normal modern woman but some kind of girl/old lady? I have a neurodiverse diagnosis (dyspraxia) but I don't put a whole lot of stock in that diagnosis but I wondered if it could be relevant. People say I look young but I don't know and to me the age you seem is about so much more than how you look it's an aura for want of a better word and I think it's that which for me is off and not as it should be. I work, I am married, I own a house and run it, I have all the trappings of an adult life but people do treat me like I am a special case and I suppose that can be frustrating for me.

Does anyone else know what I mean?

I came to comment that I relate to a lot of that except for the part that I don't care too much how I am seen, which I put down to having quite a lot of loving people in my life.

I do quite like fashion, but I get that from DM, I could just as easily not care especially if I lived somewhere more rural.

I am an INFP. Once I figured out I was INFP the whole world made a lot more sense. Also ADHD.

I am also quite social oriented - if you get into it, the enneagram is quite interesting because you have dominant instincts (sexual, social and self preservation).

I don't believe I have dyspraxia although I do have that diagnosis. I have no balance, coordination or dexterity issues at all in fact it is rather a strength of mine. Most of the other things are just kind of personal idiosyncratic things except perhaps the sensory issues. Things that seem critical about autism like not being able to read people (something I am good at) not being able to make eye contact, emotional dysregulation, stimming, masking, obsessiveness, taking this literally or being blunt, I have none of those issues at all. The only real think I think I have is sensory issues which I don't think is enough to say I am autistic and I don't know if my mum and brother are autistic I just think they might be. However I did ask so thanks for replying, its something to think about.

I did look at the enneagram in my teens, if I remember correctly I am a 4 with a 5 wing.

I'm a 3w4 So Sx Sp if it is a thing, I think the 4 aspect can have identity, fitting in related issues. When I stopped comparing myself I got a lot happier. On envy, I had an epiphany just yesterday actually that, why shouldn't I be allowed to be happy and put my needs forward just like everyone else.

The 3 aspect means I don't have an issue with cutting losses if something isn't working. I love 5s, they don't follow the crowd with their opinions.

My daughter is very similar to you and can read people very well, great at sports (with a dyspraxia diagnosis), doesn't take things literally, isn't blunt at all - very diplomatic in fact - and also is friends with everyone but has no particular close friend. She's also very other worldly. She's got ADD with ASD traits.

I’m don’t want to argue with you about having autism; it’s certainly not something that can be diagnosed on a thread. But at the same time so much of what you say is very familiar and I’ve been lucky as an ND person to have known many others. I’m a misfit who fit with other misfits!

One of the enormous issues with the diagnosis and definitions of neurodivergent conditions is that they are constructed from a neurotypical perspective. The view from inside autism/adhd is not well captured by the medical community. But we generally make NT people uncomfortable in some way - it sounds like you spark curiosity rather than unease.

What’s pinging my radar, are things like how clear sighted you are. That’s something I see in my autistic friends - they’re not easily gaslit, and capable of holding their own opinion, not as easily influenced. And I think that’s what your mil might be seeing when she calls you untouched.

The way you describe trying drugs, alcohol, clubbing and not liking it, so stoping stands out. Neurotypical people don’t exactly like these things in the beginning either but are strongly driven by a need to fit in, and their identity is a bit more malleable so they convince themselves that they belong and enjoy it, and then they do.

It’s also not unusual to be misdiagnosed in childhood. Often a “label” gives access to some help or support, and since that help isn’t very much at all, there’s no impetus to dig deeper.

At this point a sensory processing disorder condition might be useful to explore. Or not! And a key thing to appreciate is that boundaries between autism, adhd, dyspraxia, ocd, dyslexia, SPD etc are poorly drawn. Each edition of the DSM is significantly different than before.

It’s very hard to look at the diagnostic criteria of a disability and see yourself, particularly if you’re not struggling with extreme traits. When my ds was diagnosed with autism I made a post on MN expressing my confusion. He just didn’t fit the triad of impairments. But when I described him, other autistic adults were saying to me that he was autistic - it just took me a while to see past the cartoonish stereotypes to recognise the subtle neurological differences that made him his amazing, interesting and wonderful self. (And it still took another ten years for me to recognise my own traits). He’s perceptive, brilliant at reading people, incredibly insightful. He’s also autistic.

But to clarify - I’m not trying to convince you that you have autism. I’m just sharing what it is in your description that’s making me wonder. And it could well be that at the moment you share traits that overlap with autism now, but in the future would be differentiated. And it’s in no way a criticism , or a simile for “wrong”. All my favourite people are ND!

One other thing I would say is to try not to dwell on things boyfriends have said. Men can be really grim: happy to have sex on tap whether or not they like or respect the person they’re with. And their entitlement can be staggering. It’s hard to fathom the mindset where you’d criticise or try to change another person, but it’s so common! I don’t know anyone whose self esteem didn’t take a bruising in fledgling relationships. That’s no reflection at all on you. You just hadn’t found a good match.

nonplus I’m fairly convinced I’m not ASD but I didn’t enjoy taking drugs or much alcohol as a teen and clubbing was a big meh

the more I read of ASD traits, the more I think ND people often just seem the most sane and normal and in an utterly insane world

which has me questioning if I have ASD myself as I also am not easily influenced, don’t do the usual things to fit in etc. but no one would ever think I was

I’m not saying I think ASD is overdiagnosed or that everyone is a “little bit autistic” but I hear it suggested so much now that I wonder if non ND people are the odd ones.

I'm brilliant at reading people and a fantastic communicator. I can do eye contact, but not prolonged. If I melt down, it's normally internal so I shut down and hide under a blanket on the sofa for a while.

I need routine in my life to get shit done. Without structure, I struggle. I have sensory issues, food, clothing and noise related. My 3 best friends are also Nd, so I found my small tribe which is enough.

I often feel like a bit of a kid surrounded by adults, even though I'm 53.

@Nonplusultra That is a very thoughtful post, thank you! I am not dismissing it completely but just what seem to be to be key traits of autism I don't seem to have at all. I think I probably am a bit ND, after all there must have been a reason I was referred for testing in the first instance! Its possible I kind of have different traits from different things but don't fall into any one criteria exactly, I am sure many people are like that. I suppose it is useful to consider why others might react to me as they do.

I think consciously I did understand those boys were just being immature and not worth my time if they were going to say things like that but somewhere at the back of my mind I'd kind of associated their criticism of me with how other people sometimes would describe me and in the back of my head it equated to me being a bit of a sad sack or something. Yes it is tough when you are so young and everything can feel so important at that age even if it ends up being inconsequential the strength of emotion you feel at that age makes quite an impact!

Get assessed for Autism.

I'm 46 and I could have written this myself.

I've been added to the NHS waiting list following a pre assessment.

You sound like my kind of person, an interesting individual who's not afraid to do things your own way. Most of my close friends have had something different or quirky about them. Many are ND in some way. Some have had physical differences.

DS is autistic, dyspraxic and dyslexic. DS2 definitely very dyslexic and it wouldn't stun me if there was inattentive ADHD in there, but he's not the classic naughty boy cliché. DS2 is very much like me. I used to wonder if I was dyspraxic from learning about it years ago, but the more I learn about ADHD in women, the more I wonder about who's been spying on me for 40 years

Aside from neurodiversity, I think a lot of "normal" people just don't know what to do with people that don't follow established patterns. Most people like to conform and many seem nervous around those who can't be neatly pigeon holed. I used to find it weird at school that groups of friends seemed to have mass identities as clone-like as possible to their friends rather than expressing themselves and having the confidence to say/ do/ wear/ like their own thing. A lot of people don't grow out of that mindset.

Visually I have the small, youthful look going on and that can affect peoples' impressions and reactions. Certainly in my 20s and 30s people would literally overlook me and not treat me as an adult. I don't have a sophisticated adult look, partly because I feel like it would be an unconvincing dress-up act.

Your life story is textbook undiagnosed female autism.