Benefits of rejoining the EU

[jgw1]

It has been suggested on another thread that it would be a good idea to have a thread for us to share the benefits of rejoining the EU.

I thought I would be bold enough to do so, and suggest the first benefit.

The UK would then be rule maker not a rule taker..

https://www.myeu.uk/search?London%20SW1A,%20UK

You can search by postcode

Another benefit - no fricking passport queues

Just came through an airport at the weekend and queuing to have passports checked manually when there's an automated system right next to us that we can't use any more - always drives me crazy.

It wasn't me who made that comment, it was the OP @jgw1

I replied to it. As I said though, nothing surprises me anymore with this shower. They are all self serving.

I think that @jgw1 is at least mistaken ifnot worse. I know Sunak hailed the UK rejoining the Horizon programme, but I have not seen or heard the slightest indication that he, or any other member of the Conservative government is openly in favour of rejoining the EU. Also I see @jgw1 elsewhere uses the term 'flipflopped' which is a mainly American right wing term, so I wonder about their bona fides and/or UK standing a bit.

The EU is a great idea in theory but awful in practice. Most successful federations ( the US, Australia, Canada) leave the minimum amount at the national level - pretty much defence, income tax and foreign policy. The EU (well EEC when we joined) started off well by focussing on trade and movement of labour but has become horrendously bogged down in trying to grab more and more power at low level as well as high.

The whole Euro and economic management of the bloc is a disaster. Joining the Euro means a locked in exchange rate ad infinitum with really successful economies like Germany and the Netherlands. It's been hollowing out the club Med countries ever since (not helped by the poor economic management of the national governments).

Places like Romania, Bulgaria and the Baltics have 20-25 per cent lower population than they did 30 years ago - this is also helping create a two tier EU.

The quality of MEPs is risible - there are some really unpleasant people on both right and left who would attract a lot of negative publicity if they were in the UK parliament. The only upside is they don't have any real power as only the European Commission can propose new laws and regulations so the elections for MEPs are basically a sham.

This brings me on to the EC itself and the 5 Presidents. Two of them have criminal records - Lagarde for financial malfeasance for doling out hundreds of millions to Tapie and Borell for insider trading. Von der Leyen was widely regarded as the most incompetent minister in Merkel's government but was put in place as Merkel's sock puppet. Michel performs the same function for Macron.

Anyone who thinks the UK would be come a rule maker by rejoining with these sort of people in charge is not paying attention. The EU is about accumulating political power without democratic accountability

I like the idea of the EU but it is going to take a massive amount of reform to persuade my to put my X in the yes box to rejoin

So, if it had been 52% in favour of remaining- would you be advocating a new vote? Didn't think so.

Has anyone told Greg Hands about using flip-flop?

We had a vote to go in.
Later we had a vote to come out.
One day we may have a vote to go back in.

Democracy doesn't just happen once.
Especially when the people no longer support the position.

On principle I have no issue with voting again. The problem is we threw away an excellent deal, so returning would require a lot of thought.

^ This 100%

Most referenda require a threshold higher than 50% to change the status quo. It should be a higher bar to completely change things than to keep things as they are, because of the risks involved.

I think the result was dodgy as fuck because of Cambridge Analytica's involvement, which could have swung it.

If there had been 52% in favour of remain but then somehow being in the EU was making the economy tank as Brexit is, and there was a clear and consistent majority for leaving in the polls as there is for rejoin, I wouldn't think another referendum would be a bad thing.

Basically it was a colossal mistake bourne of corruption and populism. I'm hoping the democratic process will let us reverse it.

Freedom of movement and immigration are entirely different things. The Tories are already introducing freedom of movement by the back door to manage the labour shortages in many areas. Immigration is something entirely different and always has been. It was lies told by por-Brexit supporters that made people think that leaving the EU would cut immigration. It didn't, because it was never a vote on immigration.

I leant towards, and then voted, remain. I wouldn’t now if I could go back, and I wouldn’t vote to rejoin. The debate leading up to the vote was toxic, and it became worse afterwards. Decent arguments on both sides were exaggerated and distorted, and mixed up with banalities about passports and baristas.
I voted remain in the end out of self-interest… access to Horizon. however, in my professional encounters with Brussels I was always struck by the sense of an entitled, smug and unaccountable bureaucratic class. In the UK, similarly, after vote, this same sense of smug entitlement was unmistakable in the post-mortem, with experts in the media and academia indignantly proclaiming that stupidity and racism were the root causes.
I don’t know if the institutions of the EU can be meaningfully reformed. I certainly don’t like them or the elite, revolving door of privilege they sustain, or the fig leaf it provided our leaders to act in many spheres of life without democratic mandate.
however, I do like the idea of some kind of integration between European countries. Maybe the EU is the best we’ll get. I agree that rejoining isn’t (and shouldn’t) be an option now. But maybe in a generation my children or grand children will think differently, and more power to them.

@Neriah - there was at least as many lies told by Remainers - remember George Osborne's threat of economic apocalypse - never happened.

If people were really paying attention they'd have been asking him why the Bank of England was running negative real interest rates the whole time he was C of the E. It's where quite a lot of the economic issues we face now originated as people are finding out when their fixed rate mortgages come up for renewal

I'm a die-hard Europhile, and I "want the Euro". Don't generalise.

Everyone I know who voted to leave was white, working class and right wing (tory or UKIP). Every single one of them thought Brexit would wipe out any and all forms of immigration and that the NHS would be the beneficiary of the gazillion pounds splashed on the side of the bus. They also firmly believed that England (I deliberately haven't said Britain) would attain a status very close to its imperial past. They recited these "facts" like a mantra and were unwilling (or unable) to think any deeper or further.

During the run-up to the Leave/Remain referendum, at one point opinion polls were showing 52% Remain and 48% Leave (the exact inverse of the eventual result) and Nigel Farage said in an interview that such a [close, divisive] result would be 'bad for democracy' and he would favour a repeat referendum. After the referendum, not a squeak from that unspeakable toad.

I quite like Farage - most people get him totally wrong. His detractors think he's a little Englander racist and his acolytes think he is some kind of political saviour. Neither are right - what he is, is a very good campaigner and communicator but on one subject only - membership of the EU. Outside of that he's pretty useless

I'd certainly rather have a pint with him than Rishi Sunak, Kier Starmer, Ed Davey, Hamza Youssuf or Mark Drakeford

Like Jeremy Clarkson though he annoys all the right people

@ginasevern
Well, if you say so, it must be (a) true and (b) universal. Perhaps the only people you know are white and working class, in which case I’d hazard that everyone you know who voted remain is also white and working class.
for what it’s worth, I know people from all walks of life (including academics!) who voted for remain; the same is true of my leave voting friends and colleagues. Only one side is demonised for their decision, though.

Someone said to me "You're intelligent and well educated, why did you vote Leave?"

My response was "Because I'm intelligent and well educated... and I pay attention"

My son won't have to get married at age 19, just so he and his German girlfriend can be together. (They would plan to marry in their mid twenties but due to brexshit, he can only visit for 90 days every 180 days)

Every time I read the word Brexshit I know its someone who hasn't been paying attention. Remoaner is nearly as bad but more apposite because of pampered cretins like Gina Miller and Alistair Campbell

The only people who make these claims and go on about empires and imperial pasts are remainers.

No, it's almost as though membership of the EU worked out really well for some people, not others. When we initially joined, there were years of pain for some people/industries/farmers etc before a large number accepted any benefits of joining, so we'd expect a few years of pain before the benefits of leaving may become clear.

You do realise that every single penny of that money that the EU "gave" us, was paid to the EU by us, and they kept most of it and gave some back, right? Every. Single. Penny.

There are more EU and non-EU workers in the UK now than there were before we left the EU. Oh, and well done for promoting stereotypes - did you get around to lazy Scottish alcoholics and French garlic sellers yet?