Benefits of rejoining the EU

[jgw1]

It has been suggested on another thread that it would be a good idea to have a thread for us to share the benefits of rejoining the EU.

I thought I would be bold enough to do so, and suggest the first benefit.

The UK would then be rule maker not a rule taker..

The problem is that we will never be able to rejoin on the terms that we had previously...we threw all that away and I am still so angry about it. Of course, there would still be many advantages to rejoining but I'm less than convinced that any party would be politically brave enough to argue for that. Though I guess it may partly depend on just how bad things get.

Do you have evidence regarding the lack of appetite to rejoin? Would be interesting to see the stats.

I think most polls reflect that majority of voters now recognise that leaving the EU was a mistake. I don't think I've actually seen any polls on whether or not we should seek to rejoin.

Free movement of people would be an advantage. One of the reasons growth has stalled is too few workers. They also bring cultural enrichment. Immigration has not gone down since we left the EU. It has gone up. But the immigrants now skew more towards unskilled asylum seekers who are prohibited from working at all, rather than those with skills coming for work as was the case before. Free movement cuts both ways too. It gives us the right to move and live in 27 other countries. That is a massive entitlement.

The biggest one for me is the freedom to live , work and travel in the EU.

Obviously business would benefit from the free trade so prices would be cheaper

Food standards
Labour laws
Consumer rights
Safety standards
Ecological standards

The biggest one for me is the freedom to live , work and travel in the EU.

Obviously business would benefit from the free trade so prices would be cheaper

Food standards
Labour laws
Consumer rights
Safety standards
Ecological standards

Food standards
Labour laws
Consumer rights
Safety standards
Ecological standards

We still have all these without being in the EU

There are a couple I’ve seen. They are mostly in favour of rejoining. And it’s a sort of upward trend. Every time the question gets asked the proportion in favour goes up.

Cleaner waterways would be another advantage. Environmental standards not being watered down by the current government and companies breaking the law being held to account.

But by rejoining the EU we would take back control, rather than being a rule taker we would be a rule maker.

At a lower standard

@HappiestSleeping

Why is the Prime Minister campaigning on long term decisions such as rejoining the EU which would lead to a brighter future if it is pointless?

Is he really? Where did you hear/read that?

It would actually be the opposite.

Opinion polling shows a clear and growing majority wish we hadn't left. The % wanting to rejoin is rising all the time. Whether it'll be possible is a different question, because we'd never get back the absolutely great deal we had.

Brexit was a shit idea and now is a shit reality. People are not stupid, they can see what has been happening since we left.

No it wouldn't, @jgw1 is correct.

On the outside we simply have to align - businesses simply don't want to diverge. But on the outside we can't influence the rules.

Brexit was so futile, damaging our own economy for nothing.

It wasn't for nothing. It was upholding democracy.

This is correct. We have to adhere closely to the standards set in the EU (without having any say in them) because otherwise we cannot sell into the single market. I think of this chestnut enjoyed by Brexiters as hermit sovereignty. The hermit is sovereign inside his cave provided he doesn't want to interact or trade with his neighbours. The hermit can make whatever rules he likes within his cave, like where if no clothes and living solely on cave mushrooms and bat meat. If he wants to step outside of that cave though, he has to play nicely with others, and follow their rules. If he's clever, he realises that it it's sensible to have a stake in those rules and get his cave recognised as part of the town, or he just stubbornly subordinates himself to the rest of town, whose rules still apply outside of his cave... and all he had is a cold dank, cave with mushrooms and bat meat.

Wiki summary of polling on the rejoin question

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020%E2%80%93present)

No one disputes that 52% of those who voted did indeed vote for the futile, economy-ruining Brexit.

The fact 52% of people voted for it doesn't change the fact Brexit was a shit idea that has turned into a shit reality.

The UK is less democratic than in 2016, because parliament has enacted many anti-democratic laws. The aim of Brexit was never 'democracy', it was removal of the rights of ordinary people.

Thank you, that's very interesting. Not quite a clear majority in favour of rejoining yet, but definitely heading in that direction, while the number of people wanting to stay out seems to be steadily declining.

So it seems that @MeAndStuart1981 has got it quite wrong.

The number of votes the UK had in rule making meant it needed to work with many other Member States to get changes. Protectionist countries like France have become much stronger since the UK left. And the Commission have hardened their lines on many things.

So I think it would be very hard for the UK to regain its influence in rulemaking in the short term - firstly it would need to rebuild relationships generally, and then it would need to build strong alliances where others trust UK enough to work with them to make changes.

The freedom of movement is actually the free movement of workers, this was not mentioned much in the brexit debates but it's very relevant.

People were unhappy about the perception that EU migrants were coming here and getting council houses and benefits and using public services. The EU rules always allowed member nations to refuse people the right to these if they hadn't found work within three months. We couldn't be bothered to reform our benefits system to apply this so just let people come and stay anyway.

In the 90s Labour just opened the door to all and any EU migrants when they could have restricted it if they wanted, Tories followed suit. Because it benefitted the economy, although there were downsides in keeping wages low etc.

And the UK hadn't adopted, nor was it working towards adopting, the Euro as a currency. There are other who have also not adopted the Euro - like the Swedes still have the Krone. But the UK still functioned perfectly well within the EU despite not having the same currency as some and despite not being part of the Schengen Agreement.

We couldn't go back to how things were, but at our rate of decline in influence it might still be worth it.

Brexit has been an almighty mid-life crisis and we need to accept it's all been the equivalent of being an old man cracking on to 20 year olds in a nightclub and riding a motorbike in leathers and just put the whole stupid mess behind us and have a sober, accurate vision of ourselves.

Upholding democracy

Even brexit hard man Steve Baker is not so sure about that

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-supermajority-vote-tory-baker-b2434582.html

Freedom of movement would be the biggest draw for me.

I travel a lot for recreation and also for work and it's been tricky keeping track of whether I'm close to 90 days in the EU in 180.
And my passport is filling up with stamps.

My colleague had to get a residence card for a longer stay somewhere for work for that reason and it was a huge hassle and expensive. And nobody seems to know how to do it because it's all new.

I have an old house and the cost of getting skilled people in has skyrocketed because so many people in the building trade have left.

Daisychain, there were definitely EU funded projects in England. I think with the pre brexit political climate people just weren't shouting about them.

I miss Erasmus as well. They didn't just fund students - there was funding for solidarity work between charity workers and councils.

Turing is not as good.

It's also worth bearing in mind that 17.4 million voted to leave, but our population is almost 70 million.

I think it was about a third of eligible voters who voted leave, slightly less for remain and a third didn't turn out.

It was such a marginal result, and with remain voters skewed towards younger generations, plus those who voted leave to stick two fingers up but didn't actually want it to happen (eye roll) - there has been a pro-EU majority since the vote that only gets larger with time.